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Note: “An Arm and a Leg” uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.

Dan: Hey there. Rachel Bernier-Green runs Thrive-O Financial Advisory on Chicago’s South Side. She describes herself as a fractional CFO for small businesses, offering strategic financial advice along with accounting services. And she says employee health insurance was part of her business plan from the beginning.

Before she even had employees, she built extra money into her prices, and at first, she put that extra money into a rainy day fund. But by late 2024, she thought the time had come. 

Rachel Bernier-Green: I’d been in business for a while. I had a few team members, and things were moving along. 

Dan: She wanted to keep those team members around, and she knew health insurance would help do that

Rachel Bernier-Green: And so that’s when I actually started to think, “How do we actually get this in place?”

Dan: She says she moved quickly– and by January 2025, her six-person team had health insurance.  Then things got wobbly.

Early in the year, a major client left. Income took a hit, and by spring she could see big trouble coming toward her. Insurance for 2026 was going to be way more expensive. And she could tell because some of her clients were already seeing rate hikes from their health insurance companies.

They had policies that renewed early in the year, . And these were much steeper increases than they’d been expecting, so they came to Rachel, their fractional CFO, to help them figure out how to adjust, and Rachel knew she would have to do the same.

Rachel Bernier-Green: It was almost like standing on a train tracks and you’re just kind of staring down the impending doom because you know you’re going to be in the exact same situation in a couple of months.

Dan: She says she shared the bad tidings with her team as data came in right from the start, and she said she makes a practice of sharing the company’s finances, details and all, with her colleagues. She calls it open book accounting.

Rachel Bernier-Green: We have regular team meetings where we’re discussing these things and we could all look at the numbers and the writing was on the wall. So when we kind of got to the end of the road, it wasn’t me saying, “Surprise, here’s what’s going on with the health insurance.” It was more, okay, we’ve reached the point where we have to make a decision and call it.

Dan: They made the call at a regular team meeting, which doesn’t mean the meeting was routine.

Rachel Bernier-Green: My heart was just in my stomach. Um, Because like I knew what we needed to do and I just didn’t want to, want to do it. 

Dan: But they’d gotten their renewal notice for 2026. Health insurance was gonna go up by more than 10%. Rachel says everybody agreed the business couldn’t afford it. 

Rachel Bernier-Green: The numbers were pretty clear in black and white. the entire team was on the same page that what was most important was that the business continues to survive so that we could bring back those benefits in the future. 

The thing I remember the most is that another team member who relied on the insurance reassuring me that that was the right thing to do.

Dan: Even with that kind of consensus, and even with a plan in place to bring back those benefits for 2027, Rachel describes the whole episode as devastating. She’s gone on a plan from her husband’s employer. Some other colleagues have done the same, one has left the firm, and two are uninsured. Rachel and her colleagues aren’t alone.

They’re a case study. A reporter named Bob Herman featured them recently in a story for STAT — a news outlet dedicated to health and medicine.  The headline for Bob’s story: America’s Small Businesses are Giving Up on Health Insurance. And the crisis Bob is reporting on goes beyond small employers. That story kicked off an eight-part series called Out of Pocket, Out of Reach, with a subtitle that tells you how big and how deep this crisis goes.

It’s “How America’s Employer-Based Healthcare System Continues to Crumble in Slow Motion,” which sounds scary and absolutely sucks, but it’s the kind of big picture look we really need, and Bob is exactly the person to break it down. He’s the Business of Healthcare Reporter at Stat. He has done the most comprehensive reporting on the giant UnitedHealth Group.

And for years, he’s published a list of the top paid CEOs in healthcare. These compensation packages go to the hundreds of millions of dollars a year in some cases. It’s completely wild. And he knows how to bring a huge story down to earth. He’s coming right up. This is An Arm and a Leg, a show about why healthcare costs so freaking much and what we can maybe do about it.

I’m Dan Weissmann, I’m a reporter. I like a challenge, so the job we’ve chosen here is to take one of the most enraging, terrifying, depressing parts of American life and bring you something entertaining, empowering, and useful. Bob Herman joined me from a closet. One of his kids had a friend over, it was the quietest place in his house.

He was sitting on the floor. I should’ve been recording the whole time. But we did have the recorder on when I asked him, “How did you come to the conclusion that employer health insurance doesn’t just suck, it’s crumbling?”

Bob Herman: Well, here, maybe it’ll help if I explain kind of the origins of why we even started it. Um, so I’d gotten back from parental leave last year around November. My wife and I just had our second kid, and literally the first thing I have to do, both of us, we both have to do when we get back, is we have to figure out what health insurance plans we’re gonna enroll for the next year, which, as I’m sure you and every one of your listeners knows, is a miserable experience. Um, and I… And we cover healthcare, and it’s still miserable. It’s tedious but also it’s, it, it is high stakes. And at that time, we had seen all the headlines that employer-sponsored health insurance was experiencing double-digit increases ac- everywhere. It is one of the primary ways that Americans are covered, and we’re all getting slammed in the face with historically high premium increases. It turned into, like, this needs to be a project at Stat. Let’s go after it. Let’s figure out what’s going on. And I think it just became very clear that employer-sponsored health insurance is not, you know, the robust product that I think a lot of people think it is.

Dan: And your conclusion here is, like, there’s a structural problem here, starting with how fast the cost of employer-sponsored insurance is going up. 

There’s a, there’s a really big number in your story where you kind of compare how much more health insurance costs now than it did 40 years ago comparing it to the rate of inflation. And basically, health insurance prices have risen almost four times as much as inflation in general. 

Bob: ?Right. And like, you know, we’re talking over the past several decades, almost 1,000% increase versus wages that were much, much lower than that., 

Dan:  So, one takeaway there is:  This huge increase amounts to something like a hidden pay cut for all of us. 

Bob Herman: Hopefully that’s one thing that this series can accomplish is for all workers out there, when you enroll in your health plan every year, how your employer’s paying for it, how much is getting taken out of your own paycheck. These are things that ultimately affect how someone can pay for their day-to-day things, like groceries feel expensive, rent feels expensive. Why? I think part of it is because your employer health plan, it’s become such a financial burden for everybody

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. That is, I, yes. I mean, you, you’ve said to me, I, I think about all the time, which is like, even if your employer covers your health insurance, , like every dollar that your employer is putting toward health insurance is a dollar they could be paying you. It’s a dollar that’s on the budget line for your position

Bob Herman: It’s exactly right, Dan, and this is like, you know, it’s like an iceberg. I think a lot of people see, like, what’s, what gets taken out of their paycheck every month. Like, okay, I’m paying, you know, a couple hundred dollars toward my health- health insurance premium. That is only, like, 20 to 25% of what your actual premium is.

Your employer’s paying most of it. You just don’t see it. But, like, there is so, like, this big block of compensation that you get, a big and growing chunk of it is for the h- for your health plan, and it’s so hidden, and I think that’s what kind of makes the whole p- the, the whole thing so difficult, uh, for Americans to afford.

Dan: I mean the amounts are really striking. The average employer plan for a family now costs 27 thousand dollars a year. That’s average, not the most expensive. And that’s like? It’s a new car, right? These days it’s y- and not, I mean, not a top-of-the-line car, but a Toyota Corolla is, you know, a car yeah 

Bob Herman: Yeah, it, it’s that new, it’s that new car every year, but the employer’s paying the tens of thousands that makes up most of the car. That’s the part that is hidden and that’s what, you know, I think makes the healthcare system, you know, really take advantage of everything

Dan: And, um, you know I notice you’re saying that the fact that it’s hidden helps the health care SYSTEM take advantage of everything.  Not just the health insurance companies. Because they make profits, band they’re the conduit through which everyone else also gets paid.

Bob: You’re right, like it is the health, the health insurance company often takes some for itself, yes, but majority of that money is, it goes out the door to hospitals, to drug companies, to doctors, to device makers, drug distributors, whoever else. Like, all those different companies know that the employer-sponsored system is like their golden goose. 

Dan: So that wild inflation in health insurance premiums — it’s driven by how much more everything in health care costs. How much prices keep going up.  You’ve said — I mean, everybody knows — we pay more for health care in the US than anywhere in the world. Knee replacement, MRI, any meds you can name, we pay a lot more. And I hear you saying: The fact that some of these costs are hidden — they’re bundled into employer health plans — that actually creates opportunities for price gouging, for all kinds of gaming the system. 

Bob Herman: there’s all this money that employers are dumping into these, you know, health insurance premiums for their workers, and it is, it’s like a feeding frenzy. Uh, you know, years ago I remember going to JP, the JP Morgan conference, uh, out in San Francisco. It’s just like the confab where all the big healthcare industry players, you know, gush about how much money they’re making. And commercial insurance, the employer-based insurance is their golden goose, and they know it. And, I, I went around talking to people, and it’s not like they were dismissing that idea. They know that the commercial insurance market, the, what we get, what we all pay for and through our employers, that’s where they make hay. They could charge whatever they want, they being hospitals, doctors, drugs, doesn’t matter. They know that there’s that massive pool of money there. It is, you know, just imagine, like, Scrooge McDuck, right, where there’s this massive pile of coins, and he’s kinda swimming through it. And

Dan: That image has come up before on this show. 

Bob Herman: Yeah, it, it’s just that is, that is the employer market. And, you know, it’s, it’s a lot easier to make money when, you know, the people who are paying into it don’t understand how much they’re paying into it

Dan: Yeah. So you came into this project ’cause you cover the whole business of healthcare. You were already thinking like, “This is a huge story people need to know about. It’s a hidden pay cut. It keeps making insurance and healthcare more expensive every year. Keeps getting worse.” But it, it sounds like you didn’t realize at first the kind of trouble that small businesses were in

Bob Herman: As I was just doing research and talking with people and reading up, you know, there was a KFF employer health benefits survey, I and just buried deep th- within this, very detailed report, there was this chart showing for companies with 200 or fewer employees, you know, a little bit less than 60% of these small companies were offering health insurance now. Historic low, it’s the lowest it, it had ever been . And I was like, And I was like, oh my God, like, that is a shift. It’s this idea that small companies are giving up on this grand American idea of offering health insurance. It’s actually unraveling right now. 

Dan: and so, you concluded small businesses are giving up on health insurance what does that mean they’re actually doing?

Bob Herman: Yeah. I think when we think about employer-sponsored health insurance, companies do it because it’s a retention tool. And , it could be a deciding factor for an employee to come work for you, right?

Like, “Oh, my gosh,” like, “this health plan looks pretty good. Sign me up.” but if, if it’s actually eating into your bottom line, especially as a small business where you don’t have a whole lot of margin to begin with, like that is, that is huge.

 Small companies, they already kind of live on the bleeding edge, right? They just, you know, if you’re at a Fortune 100 company, you have more money than you know what to do with. If you’re a small company, just by your nature, you don’t, you know, your business is small. And it means that the cost of health insurance eat into your expenses so much more.

 And, you know, if you’re just a company of like, for example, 25 people, and you have one really big medical claim, your insurance company can, could come back to you next year and say, “We gotta raise rates 20% because of that one medical claim.”  and, and you know what the crazy thing is? It’s like a 20% is a, a g- gigantic amount, and it’s not, like, that uncommon for a small business to get slapped with that. Like, I, I spoke with, a business in Pennsylvania, and they were staring down the barrel of, like, a 50% increase.

 It’s not uncommon for premiums to, like, double, which, what are you gonna do then? You have to look for other options.

Dan: A-and what you knew when you started was things are getting bad, like rates have been going up even faster than we’re used to, right?

Bob Herman: And the, the past two years in particular have been really bad because, you know, insurers, like they endured a lot of losses. Not a lot of losses, but like they, this … The, the losses were more than they had expected over the past couple years, and so they’re making up for it now. They made up for it in 2026, and they’re making up for it again in 2027, and that’s exactly what you and others are feeling right now

Dan: C- I mean, they’re the house. It’s a casino and they set the odds, and the house never loses. Like, it’s, it’s made that way. Like, you can’t… Like, the, the bookmaker never loses. Like, , they employ a lot of actuaries, and actuaries are just bookmakers, right?

Bob Herman: Yeah. The actuaries, they are the, the very smart people that analyze, like, how much care everyone’s getting and how much they can predict that that will go up next year. , and they’re pretty good at it. And, you know, obviously the past couple years they were less good at it, but They know if there is a bad year, they can easily adjust the premiums to make up for that bad year. There is no, there’s no multiple years of losing money in health insurance. That, that just doesn’t happen

Dan: Unlike, unlike the rest of us. Yeah. So, if you’re really big, you’re spreading the risk out across a whole bunch of people, and you have reserves, and you have long-term plans.

 And if you’re a tiny little business you don’t have all of the tools to kind of sock money away for something or pull money out of your budget someplace else. Is that, is that basically the, the deal?

Bob Herman: I thi- yeah, I think you have it spot on. If you’re a big company, you can weather these things better.The more people you have, the more money you have to pay out when someone does have to file some kind of claim.

Dan: So but so what did your reporting show you about what small businesses are doing instead and what workers are doing instead?

Bob Herman: Yeah. I mean, none of it is ideal, right? ‘Cause, like, m- a lot of small businesses, they… The ones that I spoke with, and I think this is generally true, like, they wanna offer health insurance. And when they can’t do that, some are just saying, like, “You’re just gonna have to figure it out yourself,” which is, like, it’s a great way to lose an employee, right? Like, “Oh my God, I don’t have the safety net anymore.”

Others are doing, you know, maybe giving their employees extra cash that they can say, “Hey, go buy a health plan on the ACA marketplace.” And you know, it’s not ideal because if you think, you know, when, if you have a employer plan, usually it’s, you know, there’s a, a pretty big network or there’s, like, lower out-of-pocket costs, and when you go to the exchanges, it is a world of difference.

 Like, your doctor may or may not be in-network. Out-of-pocket costs and deductibles are generally much higher, and it’s just, it’s a completely different product. 

Dan: It’s worse. That what you find on the exchanges as an individual is worse than what you’d

Bob Herman: It is. 

Dan: I, I have, I, I, I know this firsthand. Like, the first episode of our podcast, I’m shopping on the exchange. I’m like, “This is bad.”

Bob Herman: Yeah, and like, don’t get me wrong, the ACA provided some kind of baseline level of protection for people who would otherwise be uninsurable. Like b- like, it’s crazy to think about 20 years ago, if you had some kind of preexisting condition, you just couldn’t get insurance. Like, sorry. And, um, but, uh, like the ACA plans are, they’re rough.

Like, it, like it’s, it almost… Like, if you have a $9,000 deductible, is that even insurance at that point? I think that’s a fair question to ask

Dan: And, a- and just to zoom out from there, like that chart you found, the one that showed smaller employers are down to just like 60% offering health insurance, it, it also showed that for larger employers, that number hasn’t changed much, right? It’s like still like 97%.

Bob Herman: Yeah, it’s, um, I think this question’s important because, um, it, it does kind of help explain the economy in terms of haves and have-nots, right? Where the biggest companies are always gonna be able to offer health insurance if they really want to. They just, they have the money to do it. Small businesses, like, we’re living in the shift right now where small businesses are not thriving anymore in terms of offering health insurance, . Well, guess what? Like, I don’t s- foresee this reversing course anytime soon. Ask any small business, and more of them are gonna be like, “You know, my time is, like, up.”

 And, you know, is it, does this, does this spur companies to shut down? I don’t know. Like, it’s totally plausible. Um, it’s not good. It’s not good for the economy, and it, there was even a recent survey that shows that it’s not good for workers either. Like, a lot of people just stick in their jobs, jobs that they hate, because they’re just doing it for the health insurance.

 Like, what kind of economy is that where you’re doing something, you’re collecting a paycheck really to just also get health insurance? It’s not, doesn’t feel particularly productive. So, like, these are all problems that are happening right now

Dan: The, I, I saw that survey and you wrote about it. Like twenty four percent of people in that survey said, “I would leave my job except for the health insurance.” A quarter of people

Bob Herman: Yeah. And what a term, right? Job lock. Like it’s, it’s this well-known economic term, job lock. Like you’re s- you’re locked into your job not because you want to, because, but because you feel like you need to. It’s, 

Dan: And you dug into some of those numbers. You were like, “Yeah, and job lock does not hit all people equally,” right? That people are… Who’s, who’s more vulnerable to job lock?

Bob Herman: It’s, it’s oftentimes it’s people who have more chronic health conditions, right? It’s like, “Oh my God, I know I’m going to be a user of my health insurance.” So like, that makes more s- like especially women because, um, you know, especially if, if you’re planning on having a baby or if you just have any kind of chronic condition, it’s like you are… If you know you’re gonna be using your health plan, you can’t afford to leave your job even if you think it sucks

Dan: , you said at the top of our conversation that, you know, this system is collapsing and that, that health insurance isn’t, employer health insurance is not the kind of robust product we thought it was. And not just for small businesses, even though it’s more obvious for them. But you did report this spring briefly on a survey that said, like, some large number of CFOs were like, “Yeah, we didn’t hire people,” or, “We raised our prices,” uh, because of the cost of health insurance, right?

Bob Herman: Yeah, this is still affecting larger businesses, and it’s happening in all the usual ways that we’ve seen over the past, you know, two decades. It’s making deductibles higher for employees. It’s making them contribute more from their paychecks. It’s changing the health plans. And, you know, I, I just spoke with someone the other day. They said that their out-of-pocket max, it’s the term like after you reach this amount, you don’t have to pay any more for the rest of the year, like it doubled. Like that is a health benefit design change where it actually functions like a wage cut too, right? So th- big companies will always be able to do it, but they have been making changes, and most of the times it just means that the worker and their dependents are taking it on the chin somehow.

Dan: Making health insurance worse. So, I mean, there’s a big story that’s just coming out right now: Did you see the story that Disney is saying, “Actually, your spouse can’t be on your plan anymore if they have an offer from their employer”?

Bob Herman: Yeah, , Disney’s basically saying if your spouse has an offer of insurance through their own employer, they have to take that. They can’t join the Disney plan, which is just, honestly, it’s batshit crazy.

For a company that is, like, supposed to be very family-friendly, this is a very anti-family-friendly thing that they’re doing

Dan: The analysis that I saw was like, look, uh, who chooses our insurance when they have an offer from their insurance? It’s somebody who thinks our insurance is better and is, and thinks they’re likely to use it.

Bob Herman: Right. 

Dan: We think we’re gonna be paying out claims. 

Bob Herman: Right. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, um, if, if you are sick and you know you’re gonna use insurance, you’re gonna choose the plan that, uh, that offers you more protection. Um, so I mean, like actuarily, like it makes sense. Like they’re, they, they have data showing that like when people join or when dependents join the plan, it is costing them more money, and now they’re going to actively stop it. Like if, if the entire social fabric of employer-based insurance is you, if you have a job, you can get an offer of insurance and your, you and your family can join it, even that is starting to unravel. Like what happens if every other employer did this?

Dan: Yeah, it sounds like the idea you started with — that big employers will keep offering health insurance — they’re not gonna walk away but it sounds like you’re reconsidering this?

Bob Herman: I am kind of reconsidering, and honestly, it’s the GLP-1s that have really started making me reconsider this. Like, Pepsi just this week said, “We’re not offering GLP-1 coverage for weight loss anymore for our employees.” Like, it’s not to say, like, that big… I still think big companies are always gonna offer health insurance, but e- but something like GLP-1 coverage, where it is o- so much money and so many people are using it, 

[00:29:46] Even for that, they’re saying, “No, we can’t do it anymore.” they’re still gonna offer coverage that will, that will try to attract people that they wanna attract. But stuff like this shows that, and, like, it is very clear the employer-sponsored health insurance system is unraveling more than perhaps I’ve ever seen.

Dan:  And yet: The experts Bob talked to all said, they don’t expect this system to change anytime soon.  And Bob ended up with some pretty clear ideas about just why that is. That’s coming right up.

This episode of An Arm and a Leg is a co-production of Public Road Productions and �Թϲ�����. That’s a nonprofit newsroom covering health issues in America. It’s a newsroom full of superstar reporters; we are honored to work with them.. 

Dan: The sense I got, you know, from your reporting is it, like, big employers aren’t happy about it. They’re, they’re mad. Um, they’re unhappy, but that this system is not likely to go away, So, if everybody’s like, “This sucks,” why doesn’t somebody do something? And you had, like, you had a kind of analysis of like, who’s getting things out of it. Who’s benefiting from, from the way things are?And who would get hurt if, if things changed?

Bob Herman: Getting rid of the employer sponsored health insurance system is just vehemently opposed by big business. They know, especially the largest businesses, if they offer an attractive health plan, they could get anybody they want.And then going back to the job lock, those people could also stay with them for a long time because they know that they have the health plan. Um, and the, the largest tax break in the entire code is employer sponsored health insurance, so it’s great for, you know, middle and upper class p- you know, people. It’s great for the businesses. They don’t… Like, nobody pays any taxes on it. 

Dan: I was really struck by the note that it’s the biggest, it’s the biggest tax break in the entire tax code, , we’re talking hundreds of billions of dollars that otherwise would go into the federal kitty that don’t. Um, so businesses, they see all of these, things that are beneficial to them, and even though it costs them so much money, it is not worth giving that up. like, “We, we still have way too many advantages from it, even though it costs us an arm and a leg.” You had a specific example, but like the Affordable Care Act was, part of its design was like super suped up, workplace health plans would incur a tax, and that this did 

Bob Herman: Yes. I, I don’t know if you remember that debate, Dan, but it wa- it was called the Cadillac tax, and it was this idea that, you know, if it’s a really, really super generous plan, we’re gonna start to tax a little bit. Everyone lost their minds about it, and it was across the board. It was businesses, it was unions, who obviously fight very hard to, you know, to, to negotiate for their health plans. It was just universally reviled. But the idea was we need to start taxing these. It went terribly. It got killed, and that w- it was honestly, it was a pretty modest change, and look at, look what happened there

Dan: A- and so I think what, what that example shows is there are people with something to lose, and then of course there’s all the people who, uh, you know, make money in healthcare, not just insurance companies, right? 

Bob Herman: Yeah. The healthcare industry is very powerful. If you look at like, like lobbying dollars, like healthcare companies and their trade groups are always at the top. And like, yeah, they want inertia. As they, you know, vacuum up another, you know, $6 trillion this year and exponentially more next yearIt is a feeding frenzy. And again, this was, this is money that otherwise would be in your paycheck.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, it’s just one of the things I think about of like, we become aware of how much things cost, a lot of us, when, like, we get a giant bill, or people we know, and we’re like, “That’s wild.” But as what you’re reporting is showing, like, no, all of this wildness is paid by all of us , a lot of us get insurance from our jobs, that’s money that could be our wages. We’re paying it there. Um, in places where the government pays for healthcare and it, we are paying that through our taxes. Um, and that is a part that I don’t think, I get to enough on this show, is that like, we’re vulnerable individually, but we’re also each of us individually paying a collective price.

Bob Herman: I remember years ago I was interviewing Don Berwick. He used to be the CMS administrator, uh, during President Obama’s term for a short while, and he made the good point that was like, workers pay for every dime of healthcare in this country, either through your wages or through what is owed to you through compensation or through taxes. Um, and I think if you, if your listeners just think of it that way, it’s actually pretty simple. Like, we’re all paying for this. It just doesn’t, it might not seem like it, but that is the reality

Dan: Um, this is a little bit risky, uh, just for our emotional health, but like, as a parent, as you report on these things, do you think about your kids as adults navigating an economy that’s another 20 and change years along this path?

Bob Herman: It’s, oh yeah. I mean, I’ve, uh, I, I don’t know. Maybe a lot of parents are worriers. I’m one of them. , I think about, like, my kids when they eventually have to go off our health insurance, right? When they have to find their own, and, you know, maybe they have their own healthcare needs at that point and they have to find something. Like, is it gonna be affordable for them? Are they gonna be one of those people who gets job locked, where they’re, they find a job but they absolutely hate every minute of it because they’re just doing it for the health insurance? Um, yeah. I, I mean, 20 years from now is a long time. Like, costs aren’t going down, and how will it affect their, you know, basic, uh, standards of living?

I have no idea. I, I mean, it’s hard not to think about it. Um, but it is far in the future, and I think that’s what also prevents people from changing things. Like, we know it’s bad, it’s gonna get worse, but, like, you know, when it’s that far in the future you can’t really address it right now. But I think that’s the perfect time to address, is before it gets so bad that our own kids can’t even, you know, afford their rent or their groceries or whatever else

Dan: I’m, I’m reminded, right, of the saying like, “The best time to plant a tree is 30 years ago, and the second best time to plant a tree is today.”

Bob Herman: Today. Exactly right 

 

Rachel Bernier-Green: I’m a little anxious about what we’ll be paying, but it, you know, it’s not keeping me up at night.

Dan: Back on the South Side of Chicago, Rachel Bernier-Green tells me she’s on track to bring insurance back for her team in 2027. She says changes they made to their business strategy last year have been paying off, so she’s got the money lined up

Rachel Bernier-Green: I mean, we hope that there are not, you know, more sky-high increases because yes, they do drastically, impact, um, our ability to operate the business But, ?I know that we’ll be well positioned to absorb the cost

Dan: as I, I’m preparing for today’s reporting, I’m like, “Oh yeah, this would be a good time for me to email our insurance broker and be like, ‘Hey Kurt, so what are we looking at for next year? Uh, I think it’s gonna be bad.’” And he’s like, “It’s gonna be bad.” He thinks for the plan that we’re on, which because of our needs for networks and stuff, is we don’t have a whole lot of choices. He’s like, “Yeah, you’re looking at like 14 to 18%, I think, for the next year.” 

Rachel Bernier-Green: Yeah. Yep Yeah. And, and the crazy thing is, like, I’m… Which sounds obscene, but I’m thinking is between 20 and 25%, um, that we need to be prepared for jumps of that magnitude. And I hope that that is not the case, but that’s what we are building into our, um, our models moving forward

Dan: And are you advising clients the same way?

Rachel Bernier-Green: Yeah. Yeah

Dan: I’m curious about, um, what it was like reading Bob’s story. What was it like, I mean, whether it was surprising or not, like what was it like seeing all of that kind of put together?

Rachel Bernier-Green: Oh, I was, um, just like silently cheering, um, because those are the, uh, exact conclusions that I, you know, I can’t inform the conclusions that he reaches, but that is exactly where, um, where I am. That the system is fundamentally broken and it is harming people in re- irreparable ways and that we need a significant overhaul,

Dan: Amen to that. Which is the thing about a story like this. On the one hand, it’s full of terrible news. On the other hand: Most of us — maybe all of us — are already experiencing the effects of all this terrible news. And I think it’s helpful, it’s good, to see it all tied together. To know:  We’re not alone. We’re not imagining things.  The whole system truly is completely broken — and as bob says, continuing to actually crumble.  

Even if we don’t have a *solution*, it’s good to know what we’re up against, to peel back the curtain.  

Next time on An Arm and a Leg, we take another look at Medicare Advantage. And, um… it’s more broken than we thought. 

News anchor: Many health insurance providers are dropping their Medicare Advantage plans.

Female voice: I heard that — I was just in tears.

Female voice 2: I don’t know any way to describe it other than total chaos. 

Dan: I’m hoping that you’re right here with me when I say:  It is so much better to know.  We do not want to get taken by surprise.

This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced me, Dan Weissmann, with help from Emily Pisacreta — and edited by Ellen Weiss. 

Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard.

Our music is by Dave Weiner and Blue Dot Sessions. 

Claire Davenport is our engagement producer.

Amanda Boyd is our Operations Manager. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations. 

An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with �Թϲ�����. That’s a national newsroom producing in-depth journalism about health issues in America and a core program at KFF, an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism.

 Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at �Թϲ�����. He’s editorial liaison to this show.

An Arm and a Leg is distributed by KUOW, Seattle’s NPR news station.

And thanks to the Institute for Nonprofit News for serving as our fiscal sponsor.

They allow us to accept tax-exempt donations. You can learn more about INN at INN.org.

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