Elections Archives - 吃瓜不打烊 /topics/elections/ 吃瓜不打烊 produces in-depth journalism on health issues and is a core operating program of KFF. Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:12:51 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.11 /wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2023/04/kffhealthnews-icon.png?w=32 Elections Archives - 吃瓜不打烊 /topics/elections/ 32 32 257378068 GOP Focuses on Fraud, Seeking To Redirect Voters鈥� Ire Over Healthcare Costs /elections/republicans-gop-fraud-midterms-election-voters-medicaid-obamacare-costs-affordability/ Mon, 19 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2295412 Heading into the midterm elections, high healthcare costs rank among voters’ biggest concerns. But lately, there’s a twist giving the issue new momentum on campaign agendas: a in government health programs.

The administration of President Donald Trump has used claims of widespread wrongdoing to justify investigations, suspensions of billions of dollars in payments to states, and the cancellation of Affordable Care Act health coverage for hundreds of thousands of people.

has opened a broader political fight over the extent of fraud and the administration’s response to it. Republicans say they’re safeguarding taxpayer dollars by going after bad actors. Democrats contend the administration has relied on insufficient evidence to target blue states and cut programs Republicans have long tried to shrink. Meanwhile, Trump’s pardons of executives convicted of healthcare fraud, administration moves to weaken some protections against abuses, and a high-profile error by Trump regulators stand in contrast with the administration’s proclaimed fraud-fighting goals.

The dispute is becoming a talking point for both parties leading up to the November election.

Republican candidates are trying to win voters’ confidence by emphasizing their efforts to halt what they say is the misuse of taxpayer dollars in federal health programs.

“Going after fraud gives Republicans a healthcare message when they would otherwise just be defending cuts to Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act,” said Larry Levitt, executive vice president for health policy at KFF, a health information nonprofit that includes 吃瓜不打烊. The approach, he said, helps “blunt” those attacks.

Democrats, however, traditionally have an advantage on healthcare in general, with are with such issues. Now Democrats are portraying Republicans’ fraud crackdown as a cover for the GOP’s weakening of safety net programs. But the GOP messaging could resonate at the ballot box.

About 44% of voters 鈥� and 54% of Republican voters 鈥� say fraud in government programs is “extremely important” for candidates to talk about, conducted in mid-September, suggesting the fraud focus might be connecting with the GOP base. Such fraud is also the top issue rural Republican voters want candidates to talk about, based on a by KFF and the Associated Press.

It’s an issue that is hardly new, and government watchdogs have repeatedly documented fraud by health providers and brokers, as well as improper enrollment in government health programs. A report by the in March warned that the “sheer amount of payments in the Medicare program creates significant fraud risks.” And in a , GAO investigators were able to get subsidized insurance for fake ACA enrollees.

What has changed is the prominence the issue now occupies in national politics.

Administration’s Fraud Targets

Trump administration authorities have this year charged hundreds of people, , in alleged billing schemes. It has announced and increased scrutiny of enrollment in federal programs, withholding in federal Medicaid payments over claims of lax oversight 鈥� with what Democrats say is a laser focus on blue states despite a lack of evidence.

The administration’s more expansive claims about fraud 鈥� and the actions it has taken in response 鈥� have generated fierce political clashes.

Most recently, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services canceled ACA enrollments covering 760,000 people. While Democrats have questioned the methods that found them to be fraudulent, federal officials said they included nonexistent consumers whose applications were submitted by brokers or agents who can earn commissions from insurers.

CMS Administrator Mehmet Oz that the cancellations included people who had coverage through the ACA but hadn’t used it. He also said some had no Social Security numbers, calling that evidence of problems.

“About 35% of current people on the Obamacare system 鈥� 35%, more than a third 鈥� had never used the program. They haven’t bought a prescription medication. They haven’t seen a doctor. That just is not possible,” Oz said. “So we know there is fraud.”

Democrats and some health policy analysts challenge that conclusion. They say that younger and healthier people are much less likely to use their insurance and that not using their coverage doesn’t mean they were improperly enrolled. Critics also say the absence of Social Security numbers doesn’t necessarily establish fraud; for example, newborns can be added to their parents’ plans before receiving a number.

“This is yet another attempt by the Trump administration to kick hundreds of thousands of vulnerable Americans off their healthcare,” on the social media site X. “Millions are already struggling to access healthcare鈥攁nd this is their plan?”

There are political risks for the GOP as well. The disenrollment of alleged phantom accounts is likely to ensnare legitimate consumers, say health analysts and ACA advocates, leading to a potential backlash against Republicans if scores of people lose coverage just before the midterm elections.

States that tend to deliver for GOP candidates will be hit especially hard, they say, because ACA enrollees are concentrated in those states. The 4.5 million people in Florida and 4.1 million in Texas who have marketplace coverage account for nearly 40% of the country’s ACA enrollment, according to .

Conservative health policy advisers say the administration took multiple steps to avoid canceling legitimate coverage, including attempts to contact consumers and requirements that additional criteria be met before coverage was terminated.

“Those criticizing the action either don’t understand it or see some political advantage in mischaracterizing it,” said Brian Blase, president of Paragon Health Institute and a former Trump health policy adviser.

Democrats, meanwhile, highlight inconsistencies in the administration’s broader anti-fraud campaign.

They note that the Department of Health and Human Services last year of insurance brokers and agents who had been suspended in 2024 by the Biden administration for suspected fraud or abuse. The Trump administration also laid off from involved in regional oversight of the ACA marketplace.

On Oct. 3, to pass legislation with mandatory prison terms for defrauding Medicare and Medicaid, eliminating probation as an option.

But Trump has also pardoned health industry executives convicted of major fraud schemes, including people who are connected to his political allies or who spent heavily on lobbying on their behalf. The pardons included a sentenced to three years in prison for a nearly $40 million tax scheme and, in Trump’s first term, convicted for Medicaid fraud.

Trump’s pardons in 2021 of executives who profited from massive public healthcare fraud spurred criticism from the National Health Care Anti-Fraud Association. Critics now say the administration is portraying cuts to Medicare and Medicaid as necessary for weeding out waste, fraud, and abuse while exonerating criminals who have engaged in some of the biggest schemes in federal health programs.

Blue State Allegations

HHS has raised concerns about Medicaid fraud and program integrity in several states, and the administration has deferred or threatened to cut federal Medicaid funding while disputes are investigated.

Democrats say the administration is itself engaging in fraud by using unsubstantiated allegations of abuse to politically target blue states.

One of the most striking clashes occurred in New York.

Federal officials launched an investigation of the state’s Medicaid program after claiming that personal care services 鈥� including help with bathing, dressing, and meal preparation 鈥� had been provided to more than 5 million people, which would have amounted to roughly three-quarters of the state’s Medicaid population 鈥� an almost impossibly large proportion.

“It is time for New York to come clean about its Medicaid program,” CMS’ Oz .

CMS its calculations were wrong. The agency said that it had misunderstood the state’s billing codes and that the actual number of beneficiaries who received the services was closer to 450,000. The administration continued its scrutiny of the New York program, however, and later suspended millions of dollars in federal funding for the state’s Medicaid fraud unit, wasn’t producing enough indictments.

The administration also withheld about from California, citing concerns about program integrity and oversight of some home medical services. State officials deny the allegations, saying has grown because of factors such as higher wages for home health aides and an increase the number of older people receiving care.

The White House announced plans to in federal funds from Minnesota, claiming the state had failed to protect its Medicaid program from abuse. State officials have and gone to court to challenge the decision.

Vice President JD Vance, who chairs Trump’s Task Force to Eliminate Fraud, and other administration officials announced the state deferrals at the White House, giving what traditionally would have been technical disputes between state and federal health officials a much higher political profile. Vance’s office did not respond to 吃瓜不打烊 questions about the administration’s anti-fraud activities related to healthcare.

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” said , a Georgetown University research professor and a senior adviser at CMS during the Obama administration. “It’s a deferral, not a finding of fraud. This is being elevated by political decision-makers.”

Republican candidates have pounced on the investigations and allegations. In Minnesota, Republican gubernatorial candidate , who is speaker of the Minnesota House, released claiming that her Democratic opponent, U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, “has never done anything to stop the fraud here in Minnesota.” Klobuchar has said that as governor she would “launch a top-to-bottom audit of state government to root out fraud.”

In New York, , a Democrat whose office runs the Medicaid fraud unit, criticized the decision to withhold funds and said weakening the operation would benefit criminals. Her Republican challenger in the November election, , has cited the Trump administration’s claims , telling Fox News Digital that James is “totally failing to prosecute Medicaid fraud.”

The administration says its actions are necessary because fraud diverts taxpayer money from people who legitimately qualify for government programs.

“The fraud doesn’t just steal money 鈥� it steals our trust,” Oz said in August on .

Democrats and healthcare advocates say the White House’s anti-fraud crusade is being used by Republicans to distract from criticisms over its to Medicaid, the ACA, and other federal health programs.

Republican-backed legislation enacted last year is projected to reduce federal Medicaid spending by hundreds of billions of dollars over a decade.

Congressional Republicans also declined to extend enhanced ACA premium subsidies that expired , increasing premium costs for many people who buy insurance through the marketplaces. Enrollment has since declined by millions.

Overall, the combined effect of GOP-led changes will result in more uninsured people by 2034, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

Those changes have given Democrats an opening to campaign on protecting healthcare coverage and affordability while Republicans seek to shift some of the debate toward fraud and government spending.

“It’s really a way to distract and reframe the cuts in a different way, to say it’s part of an anti-fraud effort,” said Anthony Wright, executive director of Families USA, an advocacy group focused on expanding health coverage. “Fighting fraud shouldn’t result in people losing coverage.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Next Governor To Face Thorny Choices After California鈥檚 Rapid Medicaid Expansion /elections/medicaid-cuts-medi-cal-insurance-immigrants-hilton-becerra-california-governor/ Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2292860 In March 2025, when California ran out of Medicaid funds to pay doctors and hospitals, the state borrowed $3.4 billion to keep the program afloat. It was, as a spokesperson for Gov. Gavin Newsom insisted, nothing new. Indeed, a handful of times over the years, the state had taken out internal, short-term loans to sustain its healthcare program for the poor and disabled.

The unprecedented move came a few months later, when Newsom and Democratic state lawmakers agreed to pay down the loan 鈥� which grew to $4.4 billion 鈥� instead of later in the year. California’s healthcare safety net, it seemed, was buckling.

Rising healthcare costs systemwide were partly to blame. But so were several state-led expansions that made California’s Medicaid program, known as Medi-Cal, one of the nation’s most generous.

Now, with congressional Republicans’ One Big Beautiful Bill Act expected to reduce federal Medicaid spending by more than $900 billion over 10 years, California and dozens of other states must contemplate the limits of their generosity. The problem is particularly acute in the nation’s most populous state, which spends more on Medicaid than combined.

“We know we can’t afford to serve everybody we want to serve in the model that we have today,” said Mark Ghaly, the former top Newsom health official who now co-chairs , a 29-person panel with the goal of modernizing and sustaining California’s Medicaid program for those who need it. “What can we do differently? What can we do smarter?”

The 2025 law that Newsom, a Democrat, has dubbed President Donald Trump’s is expected to leave millions more Americans without health insurance, mostly because of new . It also curbs the use of healthcare provider taxes and other strategies states have deployed to maximize federal funds. Some state lawmakers and consumer advocates have argued the federal cuts, along with rising costs, present an opportunity for the next governor to overhaul a program plagued by long appointment wait times, low reimbursement rates for healthcare providers, and volatile financing.

“If we continue to just give millions and millions into the same system and expect something different 鈥� I’m sick and tired of that,” said Caroline Menjivar, a Democratic state senator representing a Los Angeles-area district where roughly half of constituents rely on Medi-Cal.

Democratic lawmakers, who have often clashed with Newsom on Medi-Cal rollbacks, succeeded in getting him to delay a number of painful cuts until 2027 in hopes that a new governor might reverse them.

So far, neither of the candidates running in the November election to replace Newsom have offered substantive proposals for weathering the upheaval health policy experts say is on the horizon for a program that covers 1 in 3 Californians 鈥� roughly 13.6 million people.

Republican Steve Hilton, a former Fox News commentator, wants to pare back Medi-Cal eligibility and has promised to end coverage for immigrants without legal status, citing that benefit as an example of “wildly unsustainable” state spending. Democrat Xavier Becerra, who has spent decades trying to , has promised to protect Californians from the massive federal cuts.

Expanding Coverage

President Lyndon B. Johnson that established Medicaid and Medicare in 1965 to cover certain low-income groups, such as families with children, older people, and those with disabilities. Over the past six decades, states have substantially widened that pool, most notably under the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid expansion to childless adults.

Starting in 2024, California offered healthcare coverage to all low-income residents, regardless of age or immigration status, although lawmakers scaled that back this year. At the same time, the state opted to cover a slew of non-mandated benefits such as physical therapy, hospice care, and housing assistance.

“California has always struggled with wanting to have as broad a program as possible but then having to figure out a way to pay,” said Jennifer Kent, who oversaw Medi-Cal under Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat. “There is no population that we have met that we don’t want to offer coverage to, and we’ve never met a benefit that we don’t like.”

Since 2010, California’s Medi-Cal enrollment has nearly doubled while spending has ballooned from $50 billion a year to . It now makes up more than 40% of overall state spending, according to the .

Conservatives argue the program is . They say the federal changes will force states to refocus resources on the neediest.

“The role of the safety net programs was just that 鈥� to be a safety net,” Hilton said in an interview. “I don’t think it’s a particularly positive boast to say 40% of Californians should be on a program that was designed for people living in poverty.”

Becerra declined an interview request.

Nelly, a 59-year-old from Los Angeles County, was one of millions who have benefited from the state’s Medi-Cal expansion, but she was initially reluctant to sign up.

For years after she left her corporate job to care for her ailing mother, Nelly said, she didn’t consider applying. She remained uninsured until three years ago, when she woke up and couldn’t see out of her left eye.

She enrolled in Medi-Cal in the emergency room. It now covers her appointments with specialists and transportation to and from. While her condition may exempt her from the new Medicaid work requirements, Nelly said, she’s still worried about losing coverage after experiencing numerous paperwork hiccups simply trying to renew.

Nelly, who asked that her full name not be used, because she hasn’t told her family about her condition, said she understands not everyone on the program may need it. But, she added, “it should be there for someone like me.”

Tough Choices Ahead

When Republican state lawmakers got wind of Newsom’s plan to stretch the debt repayment over a decade, they accused Democrats of trying to “paper over” the state’s structural deficit.

“This leaves future governors and legislatures to clean up the mess,” stated from GOP senators. The Legislative Analyst’s Office later called the maneuver “unusual.” That could leave Becerra, the favorite to succeed Newsom in the overwhelmingly liberal state, as the face of staggering changes to a program he spent his career defending.

More than 2 million Californians under age 65 could lose health coverage over the next four years as a result of the state and federal policy changes, according to by the University of California-Berkeley Labor Center and the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research. At least 730,000 residents have already disenrolled since June 2025.

State agencies are scrambling to implement new federal work requirement rules for adult Medicaid enrollees under 65, hoping to automate as much verification as possible to blunt coverage losses. And in 2028, states will be required to charge some enrollees fees for many services, making it harder for them to maintain coverage.

Disability rights activists say new asset limits will prevent Californians from getting needed home care, which they say is more cost-effective and humane than nursing homes. Counties, deemed by state law to be healthcare providers of last resort, say they need immediate funding for the millions of uninsured patients they anticipate in the new year.

Hospital administrators have urged policymakers to help them keep their facilities stable, and the state’s most recent budget included some $390 million to assist public and .

Martin Luther King Jr. Community Hospital in Los Angeles treats five times the patients it was designed to serve, and 80% of patients are uninsured or on Medi-Cal. Demand is so high in the chronically underserved area, MLK Community Healthcare CEO Elaine Batchlor said, that the hospital has erected tents in the parking lot. Most emergency room patients are now treated there.

“We already have an extremely overcrowded, overburdened emergency department,” Batchlor said. “Insured care will turn into uncompensated care, and the financial burden for that will fall on providers.”

Becerra has said he opposes the state’s recent freeze on enrollment for adult immigrants without legal status, as well as new monthly premiums set to take effect next year, saying such moves will only saddle taxpayers with higher bills for ER care.

If elected, Becerra will probably need to wade into the politically toxic debate over whether to raise more revenue, , or do both.

Aside from promising to find and eliminate billions in administrative waste from the industry, the nation’s former top health official has not explained how he would cobble together the tens of billions of dollars the state is likely to need just to maintain status quo.

The next governor must tread carefully, Kent warned. “When people come and say, 鈥榃ell, you should just do this because it’s the right thing,’” she said, “all of those right things have fiscal consequences.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Early Voting Begins /podcast/what-the-health-467-early-voting-midterms-obamacare-aca-october-15-2026/ Thu, 15 Oct 2026 19:51:00 +0000 /?p=2296601&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2296601 Host
Mary Agnes Carey photo
Mary Agnes Carey 吃瓜不打烊 Mary Agnes Carey is managing editor of 吃瓜不打烊. She previously served as the director of news partnerships, overseeing placement of 吃瓜不打烊 content in publications nationwide. As a senior correspondent, Mary Agnes covered health reform and federal health policy.

This week, Trump administration officials announced their latest efforts to trim what they identified as duplicative and ineligible enrollees from government health programs. They tied the efforts to the administration’s broader crackdown on waste, fraud, and abuse 鈥� just as some states are opening polling stations for early voting.

The outcome of the midterm elections is expected to affect how and whether Congress addresses several healthcare issues during the lame-duck session, not the least of which is government spending. Plus, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. unveiled a new initiative to identify vaccine injuries, complete with a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the National Institutes of Health.

This week’s panelists are Mary Agnes Carey of 吃瓜不打烊, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Sandhya Raman of Bloomberg Law, and Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Sun.

Panelists

Joanne Kenen photo
Joanne Kenen Johns Hopkins University
Sandhya Raman photo
Sandhya Raman Bloomberg Law
Paige Winfield Cunningham photo
Paige Winfield Cunningham The Washington Sun

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Federal health officials this week pointed to their efforts to cut Affordable Care Act plan subsidies from people who were dead or found to have duplicate coverage under government health programs. While they were careful to say that these cases were not fraud, they tied their housekeeping activities to the Trump administration’s broader crackdown on waste, fraud, and abuse 鈥� and made that point just as some states are beginning early voting.
  • The outcome of the midterm elections is expected to shape how Congress spends its time during the coming lame-duck session, with benefits or repercussions for health policy. Should the Democrats win control of one or both chambers, for instance, the party’s leaders could push to hold off on tackling government spending until they have more clout next year. Among the issues on the table are changes to the No Surprises Act, which has shielded patients from many bills but also has come under criticism for problems with the arbitration system it created.
  • And Kennedy is pursuing a new initiative on vaccine injuries, opening a designated clinic at the NIH. The federal health department has also proposed reimbursing medical professionals for reporting vaccine-related injuries.

Also this week, 吃瓜不打烊’ Julie Rovner talks with Dan Weissmann, host of the healthcare podcast An Arm and a Leg, about the new and even more confusing landscape for Medicare enrollees as open enrollment begins.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:鈥� 

Mary Agnes Carey: 吃瓜不打烊’ “People Say These Peptides Hurt Them. Their Stories Are Muffled in MAHA’s Push for Medical Freedom,” by Amy Maxmen.

Sandhya Raman: Stat’s “,” by Andrew Joseph.

Paige Winfield Cunningham: 吃瓜不打烊’ “AI, Tech Leaders Are Lobbying Trump Health Officials in a Government-Run Chat Room,” by Amanda Seitz, Maia Rosenfeld, and Darius Tahir.

Joanne Kenen: On CBS News’ Face the Nation, host Margaret Brennan’s interview with Shyam Sankar, chief technology officer at Palantir. () 

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

  • Reuters’ “,” by Andy Sullivan, Helen Coster, Ahmed Aboulenein, and Tim McLaughlin.
click to open the transcript Transcript: Early Voting Begins

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Mary Agnes Carey: Hello from 吃瓜不打烊 and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Mary Agnes Carey, managing editor of 吃瓜不打烊, filling in for Julie Rovner this week. As always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Oct. 15, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So, here we go. 

Today we’re joined via videoconference by Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Sun. 

Paige Winfield Cunningham: Hi, Mary Agnes. Great to be with you. 

Carey: Sandhya Raman of Bloomberg Law. 

Sandhya Raman: Good morning. 

Carey: And Joanne Kenan of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health. 

Joanne Kenen: Hi, everyone. 

Carey: Later in this episode, we’ll have Julie’s interview with Dan Weissmann, host of our sister podcast An Arm and a Leg, about the new and even more confusing Medicare landscape as the 2026 open enrollment begins. But first, this week’s news. 

Yesterday, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services announced it had identified 189,000 people receiving Affordable Care Act plan subsidies who were also enrolled in a second government health program or are dead. CMS officials said that eliminating that duplication would save taxpayers approximately $1.5 billion over the next year. Wednesday’s announcement follows the administration’s move last month to remove 760,000 people from ACA coverage, citing alleged fraud. The cost of healthcare is a top issue for voters in the upcoming midterm elections, and the Trump administration keeps highlighting its efforts to combat waste, fraud, and abuse. How do these two announcements help Republicans in the midterms, especially as early voting is beginning in some states? 

Cunningham: Well, I was at the press conference yesterday where they announced this, and it’s kind of interesting that they’re trying to fit this announcement into their larger effort to combat fraud, because officials actually said yesterday that this doesn’t necessarily reflect fraud. So what they were announcing yesterday is basically they were looking for people who had often moved from one state to another and then didn’t cancel their ACA plan or Medicaid coverage, and so now they’re enrolled in both. And so this is more of an issue of just kind of cleaning up the rolls, making sure that people are only on one plan instead of two. And so I thought they did a pretty good job of explaining yesterday what they were doing there. 

But it was interesting because, as you note, they have this larger anti-fraud effort. It seems like every time I’m tuning in to what [CMS Administrator Mehmet] Oz is doing, he’s talking about fraud. And they’ve partnered with DOJ [the Justice Department] and other agencies to go after fraud in all manner of areas. And I would say, some of the stuff they’re doing on Medicaid is quite unprecedented, right? They’ve deferred huge sums from California and Minnesota. They’re alleging massive fraud. The states say that they’ve provided no evidence of fraud. So there’s a lot of questions there. But I will say on the ACA efforts, when I talk to career staff inside CMS, they say, You know, we did need to do a lot of cleaning up of the rolls in ACA. And there has been an ongoing issue of agent broker fraud, and there are incentives for agents to enroll people without using Social Security numbers because they get commissions every time they do. So I think that’s a real and important effort. 

But I do think it’s interesting they’re trying to kind of roll it all together in this big anti-fraud messaging ahead of the midterms. And I think especially [Vice President] JD Vance, for example, talking about this in starkly political terms, like he will go out there and say blatantly Republicans want to get rid of fraud and Democrats want fraud, which is a ridiculous thing to say because you talk to anybody in the, you talk to any state, red or blue, and they say obviously we don’t want fraud. It’s more of a question of how many resources you put toward trying to get rid of fraud. I don’t have a great sense of how much this is resonating with the public, but they certainly have been kind of tying it to this message of: These are taxpayer dollars that are being misused, and we’re going to right all of these wrongs. 

Kenen: There’s a couple of issues. The crooked brokers is a problem, has been around for a while, and Democratic and Republican administrations have announced they’re cracking down and so forth. And we also know there’s provider fraud, right? Every few years there’s a spectacular bust of some home health agency somewhere, Florida, Brooklyn, wherever 鈥� it’s in red states and blue. But the way it’s talked about, it’s often made to sound like it’s the recipients rather than the brokers or the providers. I’m not saying there’s no individual in the entire United States who hasn’t committed some kind of fraud. Obviously, we have crooks among us, but the healthcare fraud is largely not the recipients. But by talking about it, they make it sound like the recipients are bad guys. Not always. I’ve seen CMS releases that have been very precise that this is brokers or something. They’ve been accurate. But the tone, the way they talk about people on Medicaid, the way they talk about work requirements, the way they talk about the ACA, it’s like lazy, fraudulent people who don’t deserve things. So that’s sort of the political thing. The fact that there’s healthcare fraud 鈥� there’s always been healthcare fraud, unfortunately, because I don’t know anybody who’s actually in favor of it except the people committing fraud. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, I think on the ACA, it is true. We’re coming off of the pandemic, where a lot of these anti-fraud efforts, particularly on ACA, were paused, and obviously people were allowed to stay on Medicaid longer, so that was a thing. And they keep referencing, they keep trying to blame, the Biden administration for the rolls of the ACA and Medicaid kind of expanding. But you’re right, Joanne. On the Medicaid piece, every state has a fraud control unit that has been operating for a long time, and sometimes when they try to kind of trumpet their efforts, they’re also rolling in a lot of previous efforts to combat fraud that happened under previous administrations. 

Carey: But from the election viewpoint, how does this square with a voter? Right? If you are struggling to afford your healthcare premium, or if you were one of those folks that got that enhanced ACA subsidy that’s now gone, or you’re paying more for your drugs at the pharmacy counter, does that really comfort you that the Trump administration is focusing on waste, fraud, and abuse,-a problem that’s been with us, as we are all noting here, for a while? 

Winfield Cunningham: I do think people respond to tangible things. Which I think the administration has that sense, which is why you saw them announce that they’re sending these $500 checks to it’s like around a million ACA enrollees, and the checks are mostly going to, well, they’re all going to states that rely on healthcare.gov. And most of the states that have really competitive Senate races this year, are voters in those states, are getting those checks. So I don’t know. I don’t ever have a very good political sense, so I can’t say. But maybe if somebody gets a $500 check in the mail, they maybe are feeling better about the administration. But it’s definitely a patch on the existing problem of just marketplace plans being too expensive if you’re not heavily subsidized. 

Kenen: If you lost your health subsidies and you’re now either uninsured or paying a lot in the private market for a plan that might not be very good, I don’t see that health $500 check is going to make you feel whole. It’s like you lost something worth thousands and they’re giving you hundreds. And I’m not sure if this $500 is taxable or not. I don’t know if anyone, if any of you know that I’d be interested. 

Carey: Oh, I do not know that. 

Kenen: I don’t know, but it’s not that much money. I don’t think that the people who are mad about the expired subsidies are going to suddenly decide they don’t matter because they got 500 bucks, right? And in fact, if you go on what Mary Agnes said, this is more in the, the red states are more reliant on 鈥� fewer of them are running their own exchanges. I don’t think the $500 check is going to make a big difference in terms of how people vote. I don’t think most people who’ve lost insurance could be, if you were going to vote against the Republicans because of that, I don’t think 500 bucks changes it. 

The other fraud conversation is the president himself, who’s constantly saying that there’s fraudulent elections, that the Democrats cheat, and so on and so forth. That the media lies. So there’s a separate fraud conversation. I think that the healthcare conversation about fraud may reinforce that a little bit, but I don’t know that we know that people make a connection to the political stolen-election dialogue and the healthcare fraud dialogue. I think that they are sort of creating an impression that there are a lot of people who are getting federally subsidized healthcare who don’t deserve it. But I think that translates into support for entitlements, or what used to be entitlements, or now sort of modified entitlements for some. But I don’t know if it really changes your view of your political affiliation and how you’re going to vote. 

Winfield Cunningham: Well, and if you think about just the numbers, I remember talking to ACA enrollees at the end of last year who were going to lose all of their subsidies. You’re talking about your cost going from a $500-a-month premium to $1,500 a month or $2,000 a month. I talked to a lot of people that were looking at that. So $500 is just a patch. Maybe it helps fill in the gap for one month, but you have 11 other months you have to cover these higher premiums. 

Carey: Let’s shift to what happens after the elections. Congress comes back for a lame-duck session on Nov. 9, and with the midterm campaigns behind them, lawmakers might be willing to tackle politically sensitive issues that both parties prefer to defer until after the elections. But depending on who wins and by what margin, and if, it’s predicted, Democrats take at least one chamber, compromise may not be high on the agenda. Must-pass legislation includes funding the government beyond Dec. 11, when the current continuing resolution expires. Healthcare items could certainly hitch a ride on that measure. Lawmakers from key healthcare committees have floated fixes to the No Surprises Act. That’s legislation that protects consumers from high out-of-pocket costs if they seek emergency care from a provider that’s not in their current insurance network. The law’s arbitration system has come under fire on several fronts 鈥� more claims than expected, and some payouts for physicians that insurers have said are sky high and refuse to pay. Rep. Frank Pallone of New Jersey 鈥� he’s the top Democrat on the House Energy and Commerce Committee 鈥� has proposed eliminating arbitration and instead paying doctors at median in-network rates. Rep. Greg Murphy, a North Carolina Republican who is a physician and sits on the House Ways and Means Committee, he expects that panel to have legislation on the issue. And outgoing Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican, has said that he hopes to introduce legislation as well. Does all this attention to the No Surprises Act mean we’re going to see movement on this? If so, what might that legislation look like? 

Raman: I think it goes back to what you said before, which is really the midterms are going to shape so much of this, Depending on that outcome, if Republicans keep control of both chambers, the air in the room, I think, is really going to push towards getting appropriations done, or done quicker, so they can move on to new things next year, whereas if Democrats get one or more chamber, they’re going to want to push it so that they can have more buy-in doing it next year. And I think so much of that, what would get done regardless, is going to ride on that. There hasn’t been a huge appetite in general to get a lot of these little healthcare things done. And when we did the No Surprises Act before, it took a while. This was multiple years of fine-tuning, trying to get things done. And so rolling, I think, something out really quickly was going to be hard, especially when we have limited time in an election year to move that forward. 

Kenen: I think another thing to look at will be [Sen.] Susan Collins [of Maine], not so much on No Surprises but obviously on appropriations, whether she wins or loses, either way. If she wins, she’s insulated for six years. She’s sort of free to be more independent. She’s a moderate Republican who speaks a lot, again, of her disagreement with [President Donald] Trump but hasn’t been the pivotal vote in all that many situations. The issue that really is relevant to our listeners is she has been a leader in fighting for the NIH [National Institutes of Health] and also against the administration’s efforts to have political appointees oversee, decide, what we’re spending our scientific grants on. She’s fought it on, successfully, twice at least, but those have been short-term achievements. Can she get something more permanent in whatever goes through Approps in lame-duck? 

If she loses, she has nothing to lose. She can be as independent as she wants. If she wins, she’s empowered. So that whole issue of funding is going to be very interesting to watch. I think something is going to happen in the foreseeable future on surprise bills. It was bipartisan. People like it 鈥� not everybody, but generally consumers like it. Problems have arisen as often things happen. People have figured out how to find the loopholes, game the system. I think something will get fixed. Whether it gets fixed in December, I’m not sure. It may well go into next year. Things don’t happen all that fast in Congress. You could do a quick deal and get it off the table for everybody, because there’s a certain amount of agreement on the approach, or it could simmer the way everything in Congress tends to simmer. But I’m sort of really watching what happens to Collins, whether she’s got another month in the Senate or whether she’s got six more years in the Senate. 

Carey: Well, she’s been, to your point, Joanne, Collins has been working with [Sen.] Patty Murray [of Washington], who’s the ranking Democrat on Approps, to push back against exactly what you’re talking about, those efforts at the White House to have more political involvement in medical grantmaking. Other senators have also expressed concerns, and maybe they’ll join these efforts. But what could happen in lame duck, if anything, on these Medicare extenders? The stuff we hear about every year, things on price transparency, or for Medicare extenders, community health centers, lab services, hospital and physician payments? Would that be kind of an easy thing, easier than trying to fix the No Surprises Act or to come up with comprehensive legislation pushing back on the grantmaking interference from the White House? Any thoughts on that? 

Kenen: Extenders are by definition extending something, more or less, that already exists. So it’s not certain. Things get complicated, But a lot of the extenders, they get tied up and delayed as part of a pawn in other fights. But the end of the day, they usually eventually go through. Sandhya and Paige are both on the Hill more than I am, so they can tell me if that’s no longer the case, but they’re not鈥� 

Winfield Cunningham: I don’t go to the Hill, Joanne. Everything’s happening at the agency. I don’t go to the Hill. 

Kenen: Right. So extenders are on the Hill, right? So by definition, they get extended. 

Carey: That’s exactly right, yeah. 

Kenen: They’re sort of on an assembly line. People make speeches. People hold them up because they want something else. They’re bargaining chips. They’re lower-profile. They get pushed aside, blah blah blah blah blah. Congress has endless ways of postponing and delaying and arguing. They’re very good at all that. But at the end of the day, extenders eventually get extended. Whereas there are interest groups lined up around something, the providers vs. the insurance industry over how you’re going to address surprise bills. Clearly, there were unintended consequences. The legislation was popular and bipartisan, but we can see it needs to be tightened up. I think you would find bipartisan agreement on tightening it up. You might not see Republicans rushing to embrace a Democratic solution before Thanksgiving or whatever. But I think they’re different animals. They’re different animals. 

Raman: Exactly that, the kicking the can down the line for extenders, it’s the same conversation every year. I think the other issue with surprise billing is that half of these conversations that we have are just, even if they agree on the policy, them trying to figure out offsets and just what happens there. And that becomes contentious at times, just trying to hammer all of that out, find something bipartisan, even when the underlying policy is something that folks agree on wanting to get done. So, just with the limited time, I think it’ll take a little bit longer than just the next couple months. 

Carey: Well, we’ll all be keeping an eye on that. So now we’re going to take a quick break, and we’ll be right back. 

Let’s shift from Capitol Hill to the Department of Health and Human Services, where Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has opened a new National Institutes of Health clinic that focuses on patients experiencing health problems following vaccination. HHS has also proposed reimbursing physicians for reporting suspected vaccine-related injuries and urges better electronic health records tracking of these events. Sandhya, I know that , and can you tell us a bit, start off our conversation here, on why the agency and the secretary took these steps? Don’t doctors already report these issues? 

Raman: Yes, this is something that is reported. The secretary and others feel that it is vastly underreported, that there need to be other levers in place to make sure that it’s reported to the extent that they’re seeing. And so, this event that they unveiled this all last week was kind of interesting in that it was not something the press was invited to. They didn’t do a big announcement when it happened on Monday. It took several days, and then they put out some pieces related to this happening. They did a ribbon-cutting for this vaccine injury clinic. The clinic is not open yet. This is just kind of the start of this process. But the reimbursement piece is interesting. 

So it stems from a proposed rule, an annual Medicare physician payment rule that came out earlier this year, should be expected to be finalized in November. And under the language that we have right now, it would reimburse physicians and other providers, physicians’ assistants, nurse practitioners, etc., for tending to more severe vaccine-adverse reactions, so maybe not something like mild swelling of the arm or something that’s more common. They would create a new code under the Medicare system for that to allow providers to bill for diagnosing that and reporting it to the vaccine adverse effects system. And there have been some concerns from some of the medical professional groups 鈥� we have the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Academy of Neurology, American Nurses Association 鈥� that kind of have some concerns that this could incentivize certain folks to report more on this, that the system already adequately covers you as a provider reporting these systems and counseling someone for what happens here, and that if it were a really severe reaction, they would use some other kind of billing code because there’d be multiple visits, that kind of thing. So, I guess the next step to watch would be whether or not this gets finalized as is next month, to be put in place next year. But that’s what we’re watching on the reimbursement piece. 

Kenen: One of the issues with defenders of vaccines, nobody says there’s never a side effect or an injury. Nobody who’s on the pro-vax side says nothing ever goes wrong. They do say that most of the side effects are mild, like Sandhya just said, a sore arm or something like that. But they also acknowledge there are rare cases in which something does go wrong. So the current reporting system is anybody could write anything. Some of it is suspected to be made up by people who oppose vaccines to exaggerate the problems. And then there’s also a problem of what causes something, right? A biostatistician would say causation vs. correlation, right? We don’t have to go there. Basically, if I have a vaccine on Monday and I get sick on Tuesday, it doesn’t mean the vaccine made me sick, right? So that gets confused, and it’s very, unless the science is done really, really, really well, it’s going to prove what people want it to prove. So the number of people who file a complaint that they’ve been injured is quite high. The number of people who have actually been injured is quite small. It’s not zero, but much smaller than the anti-vaccination movement says. So sorting: Who’s doing the science? What does the science look like? What kind of peer review is the science going to have? How transparent are they going to be? What are we going to learn from it? Is it predestined? Is it designed to prove that vaccines cause autism, even though we know it doesn’t? There’s just a whole lot of questions about this endeavor. 

Winfield Cunningham: But I think this underscores how Kennedy just brings in a fundamentally different set of assumptions about this than any other health secretary we’ve ever had, which is most medical experts say these supposed injuries are overreported, right? Because as you say, Joanne, people report things and they don’t really know if it’s actually related to a vaccine. But Kennedy has been saying for years that these events are underreported, and he has close allies. I know Aaron Siri is one who’s been pushing him to try to reform the reporting system, so it’s part of this bucket of things he’s trying to kind of do around HHS to change almost the government’s posture toward rare vaccine events. 

Carey: And that’s this week’s news. Now we’ll play Julie Rovner’s interview with Dan Weissmann of An Arm and a Leg podcast, and then we’ll come back and do our extra credits. 

Julie Rovner: I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast Dan Weissmann, host of our sister podcast about why health costs so much, An Arm and a Leg. Welcome back, Dan. 

Dan Weissmann: Julie, thanks so much for having me. 

Rovner: So this week is the start of open enrollment for the 70 million Americans on Medicare. That’s when people can change their private Medicare Advantage plans if they want to, or their private Medicare drug plans, or go back to one or the other. And you guys have just dropped this great episode about how this year is, well, kind of different. Tell us what people on Medicare can expect. Why is Medicare open enrollment so different from, say, your employer’s open enrollment period? And what’s new this year? 

Weissmann: Oh my gosh. OK, let’s start with the big question: Why is 鈥� how is Medicare open enrollment different from your employer’s? And basically 鈥� taking a deep breath 鈥� Medicare is super complicated. You’ve already mentioned a couple of things. The big distinction with Medicare is that you make a big choice, usually when you turn 65, between what we think of as traditional Medicare run by the U.S. government and Medicare Advantage, which is administered by private insurance companies. Generally, you go one way or the other when you turn 65. If you’re in traditional Medicare, things don’t change a whole lot from year to year. You probably have a supplemental plan to cover things that government Medicare doesn’t cover. You might hop from one to the other, but they’re basically different versions of the same thing. 

Medicare Advantage is this whole other world where, wherever you live, there’s a bunch of different carriers usually offering different plans, and then you sort through them. In that way, it’s a little like your employer’s open enrollment, except there’s nobody like your HR person telling you, These are your choices. You’re kind of on your own to figure it out. And what’s different this year is a really big deal. We’re seeing continuation of a trend that started last year, where for many of the people 鈥� you mentioned, 70 million people are on Medicare. The numbers we’re seeing this year are about 3.8 million 鈥� so that’s almost 5% of those folks 鈥� are getting letters from the plan they’ve got now, which maybe they’d want to stick with, saying: Yeah, actually, this plan will not be available next year. You’ve got to find something else. That’s a pretty big change. 

Rovner: So, Medicare Advantage has always been this sort of interesting swap for people. You can, in exchange for getting extra benefits that Medicare doesn’t cover, things like dental and vision and hearing coverage, you have to stay in your Medicare Advantage plan’s network, so you can’t go to any hospital or any doctor like you can mostly with traditional Medicare. The thing about Medicare Advantage, though, is that you can’t go to anybody outside your network. So sometimes people want to go back or they want to change. And what a lot of people don’t seem to know is that while you can change every year from one Medicare Advantage plan to another, if you go back to traditional Medicare, with no limits generally on the networks, you might not be able to buy a supplemental plan that helps you with those thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs that regular Medicare exposes you to, and premiums and deductibles and copays. How big a shock was this to the people that you talked to? 

Weissmann: Well, for this story, I think, just to take a step back for a minute, when people choose Medicare Advantage instead of traditional Medicare, they’re often looking at a couple things, and one is those extra benefits that you mentioned. And the other is, yeah, traditional Medicare has big limits. Specifically, in addition to vision and teeth and ears, it only covers 80% of the bulk of regular medical care, things that you’re not going into inpatient care for, like seeing your doctor, physical therapy, getting an infusion, even outpatient surgery. All that you’re on the hook for 20% of, which, if anybody’s seen a medical bill recently, can be a whole heck of a lot more than you could pay on your own. So you would need this supplemental policy to protect you from that. And they’re expensive. They’re not cheap. The average, and it varies depending on the kind of plan you pick and where you live, but, like 200 bucks a month, which is a lot for a lot of people. And you’re also already paying about 200 bucks a month to the government for Medicare, which is also a surprise to a lot of people turning 65.  

So those things make Medicare Advantage seem really, really advantageous, because often those plans also tell you, We’ll take care of a lot of, or even all of, that $200 you’d be paying to the government. So for a lot of people whose incomes are kind of limited after they, say, retire, they’re like, I’m going into this. But then people run into the problems with Medicare Advantage, which is everything we’re familiar with from dealing with private insurance companies in our regular life. They can deny you care. They can tell you you can only see their doctors, and they may not have a lot of doctors, and they may be far away, and they may not be very good, depending whatever you see. So people might want to switch back, but it’s a no-back-seat situation in most states, where you can’t buy one of those supplemental policies for love or money because they might say, You have preexisting conditions, and we don’t have to take you. 

Rovner: Right. They only have to take you once when you first go on Medicare. 

Weissmann: When you go into Medicare for the first time, they have to take you. In a few states, they have what’s called guaranteed issue, and they have to take you anytime. But generally, for most of us, yeah, they don’t have to. And it’s a kind of pre-Obamacare world where they’re like: You have preexisting conditions. No, we’re not going to sell you anything. So that’s a big shock to a lot of people. It was a big shock for me when I first started learning about Medicare. I was like: Really? That’s the deal? So, OK, you can switch from one Medicare Advantage plan to another. You could go back to traditional Medicare. You may not have that option. But what we’re seeing this year happened last year. It happened on a slightly smaller scale. But very significant this year, we think it’s about 3.8 million people getting notes their Medicare Advantage plan is ending. 

Last year was 3 million, which was a big shocker, and so my colleague Emily Pisacreta talked to a lot of people 鈥� people who are in that situation and people who are helping people in that situation, community workers, health insurance brokers, all the rest. And one thing that she learned was that in that case, at least in Minnesota, having your Medicare Advantage plan end gave you a little bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card. You could go back to traditional Medicare and buy a supplement, and they couldn’t turn you down. However, what people told us was, for the most part, people didn’t feel like they really had the financial option to go back to traditional Medicare, because those supplements were so expensive for them. And as our colleague Julie Appleby has been chronicling, they’re getting much more expensive year over year. 

So that was a surprise to us. It was kind of a big 鈥� the big reveal was like: Oh, man, wait. This is bad. Your traditional 鈥攜our Medicare Advantage plan could go away, and sometimes in a few cases there were no Medicare Advantage plans available to people in certain counties. But even in the places where there were, again, the people who were in the business of helping people find new plans said: Look, the plans that remained in Medicare Advantage were not as good. They cost you more out-of-pocket. They covered less. The benefits weren’t as good. All those things were true, and yet people chose them because the alternative, the monthly out-of-pocket spend just to maintain that supplement and pay the 200 bucks to the feds, was more than they felt like they could afford. So they were stuck. And this seems, to us it seems like a big problem for Medicare. Because if we’re in a situation where Medicare Advantage retreats in a way, and it’s less available, and what’s there is less good 鈥攗m, that’s not good, especially if the majority of people in this situation can’t afford anything else. They’re stuck with whatever remains. 

Rovner: And let’s play a little excerpt of what you found in Minnesota. 

Emily Pisacreta: Meanwhile, Kelli Jo Greiner and her colleagues at the state’s Medicare hotline were scrambling, too. 

Kelli Jo Greiner: We had wait times of two hours. Nobody wants to wait for even 10 minutes, let alone two hours. 

Pisacreta: She and her team had to improvise. 

Greiner: We have staff that don’t usually do Medicare counseling. They help with long-term care and other areas, and we even put those folks on the phones to help. 

Pisacreta: And she wrangled a weekly spot on Fox 9 in the Twin Cities to answer big questions. 

Amy Hockert: Medicare Monday is what we’re calling it. A lot of changes coming in 2026. Kelli Jo, thanks for joining us. 

Greiner: Well, thank you. I’m glad to be here again. 

Hockert: All right. Well, let’s roll 鈥� 

Pisacreta: Kelli Jo told viewers the most important thing is to be proactive. If you don’t do anything, the system will put you into traditional Medicare, but without a Medigap plan. Oh, and by the way, she told them, your drug plan will probably disappear, too, unless you sign up for a new one. 

Rovner: So, what do you do if you get a letter telling you that your plan is ending? Or if you just plain need help? There is actually 鈥� this is the one bright spot 鈥� there is a lot of help available. Right? 

Weissmann: There is help available. Yeah. The best thing you can do is go to Google and Google the word “SHIP” and “Medicare” and the name of your state. SHIP is a kind of federally backed program. There’s one in every state. And it’s an acronym, but the words it stands for are slightly different from state to state, so just use “SHIP” and “Medicare” and, in my case, “Illinois,” and you will get a link to essentially a program where you 鈥� there’s a hotline you can call. There’s people there who 鈥� some of them are volunteers, some of them are staff 鈥� and their whole job in life is to walk you through your options for what kind of Medicare you could get. And they’ll know everything about what Medicare Advantage plans are available to you, what supplements cost for you, and they’ll talk through with you your options. I should say, one of the things we found when we talked to people in Minnesota was that those hotlines were jammed last year. But, so try it and do it and don’t give up.  

The other thing is you can look for a health insurance broker, but there’s a caveat there, too 鈥� a couple of them. One of them is 鈥� some brokers are great. We talked to somebody who did all of this, and didn’t get paid, but helped all of her clients and dozens more people find plans that could work for them. And the reason she, I’m saying she did this for free is because this is another piece of the puzzle in things that are changing. Big carriers like United and Humana are telling brokers they’re no longer going to pay commissions on sales of Medicare Advantage plans. So this is going to make it harder. The woman we talked to said, yeah, she was getting calls from people who couldn’t reach their own brokers because their brokers were no longer doing any of this. They just got out of the business. That’s really tough. And when you, if you can find a broker, you want to ask them things like, Do you sell every plan that’s available in my marketplace? Because you want to make sure that they’re doing the best they can for you. It is really tough. It is really tough. But those are things you can do. 

Rovner: And do it early, because Medicare open enrollment only goes until Dec. 7. So don’t wait until Dec. 6 to make that call. 

Weissmann: Yes, and so a couple of other pieces of advice that we got. One, if you’re in a Medicare Advantage plan, watch the mail like a hawk. By Oct. 1, you’re supposed to get a notice if this is happening to you, about whether your plan is available or there any changes to it. Don’t miss that, because the period to do something about it is limited. And here’s what’s going, and just, you should know what’s going to happen if you don’t do anything in this situation, which is you would end up being automatically enrolled in traditional Medicare. But you wouldn’t have a supplement, because you’re not signing up for it in this. You’re not doing anything about it. And in Medicare Advantage plans, drug coverage is generally bundled with the plan that you have, which means your drug coverage is ending, too. You have to sign up for a new one. So that would be bad to end up Jan. 1 not having a drug plan and being on the hook for 20% of anything that happens when you go to the doctors. Do anything you can to avoid it. 

And, honestly, go to the local library, call your city council member, call representatives of local government and state government, and ask them for help. They may be aware of resources besides SHIP that can be helpful to you. Emily talked to the folks from a senior federation that covers seven counties north of the Twin Cities. It’s an unusual group, and they were super dedicated. That exact kind of group doesn’t exist everywhere, but if you called your state rep or your city council person, they could tell you, Hey, here’s somebody who helps people. This is a really tough situation for so many people. It’s worse than last year. There’s more people getting these letters than did last year, and more brokers are being told that they’re not going to be paid a commission than last year. So start hunting ASAP for any help you can get. 

Rovner: Dan Weissmann, thanks so much for doing this. What a great service. 

Weissmann: Thanks so much for having me. 

Carey: We’re back, and it’s time for the extra credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week and we think you should read it, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We’ll post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Joanne, why don’t you go first this week? 

Kenen: OK, this is actually rather than a traditional print story. Margaret Brennan (Face the Nation) did with this CTO, the chief technology officer of Palantir, Shyam Sankar. Much of it was about all the things we’re hearing about, the debates about the future of AI and the existential threats and its effects of altruism, things that are not relevant to us focusing on health. But there was one real zinger that came out, which is that Sankar told Margaret Brennan that people in the AI world are beginning to smoke cigarettes just to prove how confident they are that AI is going to cure lung cancer quickly. As he said, these engineers or software developers, they’re basically saying, as he said, I’m showing you that my chips are all in. and Margaret Brennan said what I would have said, as her comment was: “What? That makes no sense.” But there you have it. 

Carey: Wow, that is supreme confidence. All right, Sandhya. 

Raman: So I picked 鈥� my piece is from Stat. It’s called “,” by her colleague Andrew Joseph. And it’s a really sweet tribute to Helen, who passed away this week from cancer. She’s been a long-standing, very influential reporter on the infectious disease beat. Had really early insights into covid. She covered the 2003 SARS outbreak. And she’s well known and respected throughout folks following healthcare, and even internationally. The WHO [World Health Organization] put out a statement about her passing. And she will be sorely missed. 

Carey: No, it’s a beautiful tribute, and thank you for flagging that. Everyone should read that. Paige. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, mine is a KFF Health news story [“AI, Tech Leaders Are Lobbying Trump Health Officials in a Government-Run Chat Room”] by Amanda Seitz, Maia Rosenfeld, and Darius Tahir. And I was really struck by the story. It was just fantastic reporting. And they gained access to thousands of Slack messages and meeting transcripts and video recordings that kind of shed light on how the administration has given tech companies a direct line to government officials as they’re basically lobbying the government to allow them to bill Medicare for their AI health apps. And instead of doing this through public meetings that anyone can view, it was kind of done behind closed doors through these closed Slack channels. So I thought it was just a really insightful look into kind of that conversation between the administration and the kind of wellness AI tech industry. 

Carey: I agree. It was an amazing piece. My extra credit is from my colleague Amy Maxman, titled “People Say These Peptides Hurt Them. Their Stories Are Muffled in MAHA’s Push for Medical Freedom.” Amy examines how the lack of data in clinical trials leaves consumers in the dark about peptide safety, their efficacy, and their dangers. Experimental peptides are often sold at longevity, wellness, and so-called performance medicine clinics, even though they haven’t been proven safe and effective in clinical trials. If you’re thinking about using peptides, I’d read this first. 

That’s this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts, as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us with your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can find me on X, . Where are you folks these days? Paige? 

Winfield Cunningham: I’m on X, . 

Carey: Sandhya. 

Raman: I’m and , @SandhyaWrites. 

Carey: Joanne. 

Kenen: I’m mostly and on , @joannekenen. 

Carey: We’ll be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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California鈥檚 Billionaire Tax Promises Healthcare Relief. The Fine Print Is Murkier. /elections/california-billionaire-wealth-tax-healthcare-cuts-competing-ballot-measures/ Wed, 14 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2287931 The pitch behind California’s is simple: Tax the richest residents in the nation’s wealthiest state to offset steep federal cuts to healthcare, food assistance, and education.

But if approved by voters in November, it’s unclear how much money the ballot initiative would raise, how quickly the funding would become available, and how lawmakers would spend it.

The measure would steer proceeds from a first-in-the-nation wealth tax to a state healthcare fund, giving the governor and lawmakers the power to decide how to spend what California’s nonpartisan legislative analyst “tens of billions of dollars.” Backers say it could raise up to $100 billion over five years to keep hospitals and emergency rooms open and preserve insurance coverage for millions of Californians. Yet, community health centers, doctors, and other healthcare entities that might benefit from such a cash infusion argue that the union spearheading the measure has readied a blank check for politicians.

“I’m not sure that you can say, with full security, that this will stop clinics from being closed or healthcare workers from being laid off, or people from losing their healthcare,” said Chris Hoene, executive director of the California Budget & Policy Center, a left-leaning nonprofit.

Can’t see the audio player? Visit kffhealthnews.org to listen.

Taxing the Ultrarich

Put on the ballot by one of California’s largest healthcare unions, Proposition 40 would impose a one-time 5% tax on with a net worth of at least $1 billion, including most of their stock holdings, yachts, and artwork. It would apply to those who were residents of California on Jan. 1, 2026. Real estate, pensions, and retirement accounts would generally be exempt.

The revenue raised is intended to offset the roughly in anticipated losses to the Golden State from congressional Republicans’ One Big Beautiful Bill Act. Over the next four years, state and federal funding cuts are projected to nearly double California’s uninsured population, which stands at , according to the University of California-Berkeley Labor Center.

Securing additional tax revenue is essential because state lawmakers have yet to come up with a way to pay for healthcare services that will be affected by the cuts, said Dave Regan, president of Service Employees International Union-United Healthcare Workers West, which represents hospital workers and got the wealth tax on the ballot. It would earmark 90% of the tax revenue for healthcare, while the remaining 10% would be split between food assistance and education at lawmakers’ discretion. Regan said such broad categories would give politicians flexibility to be more responsive to the looming cuts.

“Figuring out or predicting exactly what the fallout will be, of where reductions and cuts get made, in a complicated healthcare system, it’s just too difficult to predict,” Regan said.

Among the choices the next governor and lawmakers will face are whether to provide healthcare to people cut off by the new federal Medicaid work requirements, reverse state rollbacks limiting coverage for immigrants with legal status, or raise the low physician reimbursement rates that make some providers reluctant to accept patients enrolled in Medi-Cal, the state’s version of Medicaid.

Lawmakers could also shore up subsidies on Covered California, the state’s health insurance marketplace, whose enrollees have seen their premiums skyrocket after losing millions in federal assistance after Congress last year let enhanced subsides expire.

Most of the money must be spent on health, but healthcare experts said the measure’s ambiguous language could allow lawmakers to use the new billionaire health fund to replace existing state dollars, contrary to the text of the proposition.

“A lot of times these propositions are written in a way to get attention and get support,” said Glenn Melnick, a healthcare economist at the University of Southern California. “But in fact, they can be used for other things later.”

Instead, the healthcare industry is pushing for a long-term funding plan. René Bravo, a pediatrician in San Luis Obispo County and the president of the California Medical Association, worries that a one-time infusion of tax dollars “is going to run out.”

“We need to work on a more sustainable, durable funding mechanism for the Medi-Cal system,” he said.

At the same time, doctors are asking him what will happen when the biggest Medi-Cal eligibility cuts begin to take effect next year. Even if voters approve the ballot measure, the money wouldn’t be available for at least a few months while the state collects the tax. And billionaires could spread their payments over five years.

Californians Divided

Pasadena resident Lynne Wines, a 72-year-old retired banker, knows the state needs the money. But she worries that wealthy investors will see the measure as a precedent and flee the state. Even though the ballot measure is clear that it’s a one-time tax, Wines said it’s a slippery slope.

“Taxes have a way of being needed over and over, and politicians have a way of finding those needs,” Wines said. “So, I don’t really feel secure that this is just a one-time thing.”

She noted that Google co-founder and billionaire Sergey Brin bought a home in Nevada and moved some of his businesses to the Silver State late last year. He is backing ad campaigns opposing the measure. Brin has given more than $100 million to a nonprofit promoting two competing measures, Propositions 41 and 42, designed to blunt or block it, according to contributions filed with the secretary of state’s office. One would count some new state taxes toward California’s overall spending limit and require the state auditor to review new state tax proposals before voters weigh in. The other would prohibit new state taxes on personal property, intellectual property, retirement accounts, and other assets.

GOP gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton, who has been endorsed by President Donald Trump, warned on CNN in June that just the threat of the tax “has sent trillions of dollars, by some estimates, of wealth leaving the state.” A March study by the conservative Hoover Institution at Stanford University projected that the billionaire tax would , citing, in part, the lost revenue from billionaires who have already left the state.

California voters appear torn over departing billionaires. Two independent September polls suggested voter support for Proposition 40 varied from a to a .

Pasadena resident Steve Erler, 74, works full-time as a building manager because he can’t afford to retire. He worries that federal cuts will hurt children and seniors.

A middle-aged man kneels on lush green grass with his medium-sized dog on a leash beside him.
Steve Erler of Pasadena, California, works full-time as a building manager because he can’t afford to retire. He worries that federal cuts will hurt children and seniors, and he supports a California ballot measure that would tax billionaires. (Jackie Fortiér/吃瓜不打烊)

“These people who are making all this money, they can never spend it all. What are they going to do, buy another house in the Hamptons, buy another jet? They don’t need that,” Erler said while out walking his dog in August. “They need to be able to say when they go to bed at night, 鈥業 helped a child with healthcare. I helped a senior get fed.’ That’s what’s important,” he said.

Democrats are divided 鈥� one of many ideological fights playing out nationwide this election cycle as progressives take on more centrist candidates. U.S. Sen. (I-Vt.) and the have endorsed Proposition 40, while Gov. Gavin Newsom, who is exploring a presidential bid, and Democratic gubernatorial nominee Xavier Becerra oppose it while saying that ultrawealthy or high-earning people should pay more. “It’s time for an economic reset, a true minimum tax on billionaires that, well, ensures the people at the very top pay at least the tax rate their own workers pay,” said Newsom, who supports a , although legislation for a federal has stalled.

If voters approve the ballot measure, political analysts said, it could show other states that taxing the wealthy may help close budget gaps and pay for essential services. Already several Democratic states, including , , , and , have approved millionaire taxes, but those have been limited to income, not overall wealth. Voters in Washington state will decide this fall whether to .

“I do think this is just the beginning of these proposals nationwide,” said Melnick, the USC healthcare economist.

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Fears About Kids鈥� Online Safety Unite Democrats and Republicans /elections/online-safety-children-kosa-legislation-unites-democrats-republicans-big-tech/ Tue, 13 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2292850 The U.S. Senate candidates in Texas could hardly be more different: James Talarico, a former seminarian turned Democratic state lawmaker who speaks in calm cadences about love and empathy, and Ken Paxton, the pugnacious Republican state attorney general who speaks about a refusal to compromise.

They share an enemy, though. They dislike social media’s effects on children’s mental health. Talarico, who did not respond to a request for comment, has for kids under 16, while denouncing “predatory algorithms that divide us on an hourly, daily basis.” As a legislator, he targeting explicit deepfakes 鈥� digital imitations of individuals that are often made or manipulated by artificial intelligence and used for harassment on social media.

Paxton has been suing Big Tech, alleging the companies on their apps or from being viewed by kids. “When elected to the U.S. Senate, he will continue his proven record of advancing policies that protect children online, strengthen parental rights, and hold Big Tech accountable when it breaks the law,” Paxton campaign spokesperson Madison Cercy said in a statement to 吃瓜不打烊.

Youth mental health is in decline. Even as researchers explore what’s causing the problem, momentum is gathering among policymakers from both parties to crack down on social media companies. Several major companies are being sued, investigated, and, soon, potentially regulated. That they may be harming kids’ mental health is a key reason.

Companies are starting to feel the bite. In late August, the social media conglomerate Meta with a coalition of 48 states, the District of Columbia, and three territories and promised to change its policies and settings to protect children. Meta immediately took out advertisements in major newspapers, pressuring its competitors to adopt similar guardrails. Children’s health advocates want to go further, with federal legislation.

Indeed, at least 35 nominees for the U.S. Senate this year have sponsored bills to curb social media, initiated investigations, or publicly lambasted Big Tech companies that, in their telling, have exploited teens and kids.

“We’re protecting our children, not those profiting off their online presence,” Juliana Stratton, the Democratic lieutenant governor and Senate candidate in Illinois, , trumpeting state legislation.

Congress is edging closer to passing the Kids Online Safety Act, the vanguard social media regulation bill. The bill would require social media companies to implement various safeguards, such as limiting users’ ability to communicate with minors. to pass a version of the bill earned 91 yes votes in the Senate. Donald Trump Jr., the president’s son, that the bill needed to be passed “ASAP.”

Amid the momentum toward new federal regulations, Big Tech companies are lobbying for their preferred policy. Apple supports the bill, a spokesperson told 吃瓜不打烊, while Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram, has spent $10 million on television advertising touting its teen accounts.

“Any youth safety legislation must put parents in the driver’s seat 鈥� blanket social media bans do not do that,” said Meta spokesperson Ed Patterson, who argued blanket bans push youths onto less safe platforms. “We support legislation that empowers parents 鈥� not the government 鈥� to approve the apps their teens can download from the App Store.”

Meta and other industry groups are scrambling to shape regulations for social media, and tech in general. Meta also gave some $10 million to a President Donald Trump-aligned campaign nonprofit, Securing American Greatness. Based on a 吃瓜不打烊 search of the Senate’s lobbying database, about 70 corporations, trade groups, nonprofits, and other groups have been lobbying senators about the bill.

According to The Washington Post, the Trump administration has the online safety bill to other parts of its AI agenda, which includes legislation that would make it harder to regulate the technology at the state level. The White House did not respond to requests for comment.

The public’s views of major tech companies are souring. In 2024, the 78% of Americans said tech companies had too much influence in politics, while 64% said social media had a mostly negative effect on the country.

A widespread movement encompassing much of the public health establishment, parents’ groups, attorneys general, and whistleblowers is calling for greater regulation, as parts of the tech industry fight back by spending big on lobbying and marketing.

“You have the whole industry and all their lobbying dollars,” said Allison Ivie, chief policy officer at the Eating Disorders Coalition. that social media, by showing kids images of unrealistically thin peers and by amplifying content encouraging extreme diets, helps fuel eating disorders. “It’s not a balanced fight by any means,” Ivie said of the lobbying muscle. “How do you compete against that on any given day?”

Growing Up Online, Breaking Down Offline

from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a third of youth have persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness 鈥� about 10% more than a decade earlier. But many researchers question whether social media is causing the trouble. (Other metrics tracked by the agency show improvement.)

“The science is crude and messy,” said Sandro Galea, dean of public health at Washington University in St. Louis, who previously chaired a on the effects of social media on kids’ mental health. and have proposed a wide variety of causes for the crisis, like changes in the economy, decreasing social connections, access to firearms, and the pandemic.

Despite the uncertainty, much of the public health establishment is massing against social media. In early September, the Department of Health and Human Services advising parents and children to live life off-screen. It’s only the latest in a series of warnings from the U.S. surgeon general’s office 鈥� under both the Biden and Trump administrations 鈥� about these technologies.

“The evidence keeps building on the real and potential dangers of unregulated access for children,” Jerome Adams, Trump’s first surgeon general, told 吃瓜不打烊. These include, he said, “serious risks like higher rates of anxiety, depression, sleep problems, and developmental concerns. Kids spending too much time on these platforms face real challenges during key stages of growth.”

The policy backlash against social media has extended worldwide. The United Kingdom and Australia recently banned social media for kids under 16. The European Union has with a potential fine, up to 6% of revenue, for pushing “addictive designs” in a breach of the confederation’s regulations.

Besides the $17 billion settlement with Meta, other lawsuits in the United States have targeted Snapchat, owned by Snap, and TikTok, a short-video app owned by a consortium of American and Chinese companies. A won a $27 million settlement from social media companies; , including in Los Angeles, have , citing alleged addictive effects on youth, among other harms.

Coalitions of state attorneys general, including Paxton, have sued Big Tech companies, in some cases winning settlements related to allegations of mental health harm and addiction. In early August, to pay nearly $950 million after a New Mexico state court found it to be a “significant contributing factor to the current mental health crisis.” This preceded the multibillion-dollar settlement.

And a broad base of companies are feeling effects from the government and civil suits. The online gaming company Roblox in legal settlements, including expenses targeting “youth-related consumer protection and digital safety matters,” in the first half of 2026. YouTube, the video hosting website, multiple youth-related cases this year.

Taking Big Tech to Task

Yet the push in Congress has garnered much of the attention. Congressional committees on occasion have summoned tech company executives 鈥� sometimes with a friendly ear, but more often to berate them.

Accompanying the push for legislation are ongoing investigations, many of which collect testimony from whistleblowers. In 2025, Sarah Wynn-Williams 鈥� a former United Nations diplomat who later joined Meta 鈥� testified before the Senate about the company’s record.

Asked about allegations the company covered up or denied its knowledge of harms, : “Facebook was targeting 13- to 17-year-olds. It could identify when they were feeling worthless or helpless or like a failure, and they would take that information and share it with advertisers.”

For example, Wynn-Williams told lawmakers, “if a 13-year-old girl would delete a selfie, that’s a really good time to try and sell her a beauty product.”

Meta has been dogged by claims it has attempted to hide relevant internal research, including from the government. In a series of rulings in 2025 and 2026, a judge in Washington, D.C., found the company’s lawyers directed employees to “remove portions of research showing Meta’s knowledge of teen users’ developmental vulnerability because the research could be used by government enforcers investigating Meta.” But it has approved three dozen studies on social issues related to young people, and that they have “made real changes to protect teens online,” like creating teen accounts, whose settings parents can control.

Complicating any regulatory push, though, are protections for speech and privacy. For the legislation to work, said Jenna Leventoff, senior policy counsel with the American Civil Liberties Union, “the platforms are going to want to know who is a kid and who isn’t.” Simply asking users will not be enough, she said. “I know when I was a kid, I always said I was older than I was to try to create accounts.”

But the momentum for constraints continues. Over time, Ivie said, “we get all this damning evidence. It shifts perspectives.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Midterm Madness /podcast/what-the-health-466-midterms-poll-affordability-trump-refund-checks-october-8-2026/ Thu, 08 Oct 2026 19:05:00 +0000 /?p=2294692&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2294692 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 吃瓜不打烊 Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 吃瓜不打烊’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

The midterm elections are less than a month away, and a new poll from KFF shows voters are very concerned about rising health costs and trust Democrats more than Republicans to address the issue. In an apparent attempt to close the gap, President Donald Trump is sending checks, some dubbed as “refunds,” to some Medicare and Affordable Care Act enrollees, but those checks are for far less than most patients’ costs have risen in 2026.

Meanwhile, Republicans had planned for the healthcare cuts included in their signature 2025 budget law to take effect after the midterms. But many states and healthcare providers have jumped the gun, cutting funding and services now in anticipation of fewer federal funds in 2027.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 吃瓜不打烊, Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Sun.

Panelists

Anna Edney photo
Anna Edney Bloomberg News
Alice Miranda Ollstein photo
Alice Miranda Ollstein Politico
Paige Winfield Cunningham photo
Paige Winfield Cunningham The Washington Sun

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Healthcare affordability is a top issue for voters heading into the midterms, a political reality prompting Trump to talk up his deals with drug companies and promise checks to Americans affected by government healthcare policies. Meanwhile, a new poll shows “Medicare for All” is at its highest popularity in at least a decade, suggesting some Americans are so squeezed by medical bills that they’re willing to support a major healthcare overhaul.
  • While Republican lawmakers wrote the One Big Beautiful Bill Act so that most changes to the Medicaid program would take effect after the midterms, people are starting to feel the bite. Clinics, hospitals, and state governments are already making cuts in anticipation of the drop in federal funding. Plus, Nebraska’s early implementation of the law’s Medicaid work requirement is showing that most of those losing coverage are being dropped for procedural reasons.
  • In infectious disease news, the measles outbreak in Pennsylvania has topped 1,000 cases. Those who contract the disease are likely to experience long-term effects, because it can have serious repercussions for the body’s immune system. And the death of a lab worker in Siberia from an unknown pneumonia has raised plague concerns and is making headlines as Russia shares little with the international community about the case.
  • Plus, the Trump administration disclosed in court filings this week that the findings of its safety study of the abortion pill mifepristone will be released next year. And the practice of lethal injection is under scrutiny after the botched execution of a Tennessee woman. Many pharmaceutical companies refuse to even supply the drugs needed for lethal injections to correctional facilities, raising questions about the source and handling of the drugs used.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month,” about a patient who got a bill from a hospital emergency department though she never got out of the waiting room. If you have a medical bill that’s baffling, outrageous, or inscrutable, you can submit it to us here.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The Atlantic’s “,” by Sarah Zhang.

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Politico’s “,” by Carmen Paun.

Paige Winfield Cunningham: The New York Times’ “,” by Reed Abelson and Teddy Rosenbluth.

Anna Edney: ProPublica’s “,” by Annie Waldman.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

click to open the transcript Transcript: Transcript: Midterm Madness

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 吃瓜不打烊 and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 吃瓜不打烊. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Oct. 8, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go. Today we are joined via video conference by Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico. 

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Hello. 

Rovner: Anna Edney of Bloomberg News. 

Anna Edney: Hi, everybody. 

Rovner: And we welcome back to the podcast Paige Winfield Cunningham, now of the brand-new Washington Sun. 

Paige Winfield Cunningham: Hi, Julie. It’s great to be back. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have my interview with Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month,” about a patient who got a bill from a hospital emergency room, although she never actually received any treatment there. But first, this week’s news. 

So Election Day is less than a month away, and a finds that healthcare is voters’ top cost concern going into the midterms, and cost concerns are the top voting issue. When asked about their biggest financial concern, health costs topped things like food, utilities, and rent, and tied with the cost of gas. My big boss, Drew Altman, , theorizes that’s not just because individual health costs have spiked of late, but because health costs are so unpredictable and potentially catastrophic. So, is it fair to call these midterms a healthcare election? 

Winfield Cunningham: When is it not a healthcare election? 

Rovner: That may be. 

Winfield Cunningham: I don’t know. I guess I feel it’s not new that Democrats have the advantage on healthcare. Like, they pretty much always have the advantage on healthcare in polls. But what’s sort of interesting to me is that this administration has really tried to score some political wins here and kind of flip the script. I don’t think they’re necessarily being successful, but President [Donald] Trump is going about this in a very President Trump kind of way, right? They passed the [One] Big Beautiful Bill [Act], which was unpopular, and they’re not talking about that at all. But instead, you see Trump trying to, you know, send ACA [Affordable Care Act] checks to ACA customers and checks to Medicare customers. 

Rovner: Yes, we’ll get to that in a second, yes. 

Winfield Cunningham: And then, you know, they’re talking about their deals with drug companies. We know President Trump loves to cut deals. I think in his own way they’re trying to be, like, Hey, we’re good at healthcare, and, like, we are worried about costs, etc. And we’re doing something. But, of course, much of this is a one-time kind of fix, and not even a fix. That’s probably being too generous. But a one-time check that people are getting. So yeah, I don’t think Republicans are being successful in 鈥� presenting themselves as the party people can trust on healthcare per se. 

Ollstein: To Paige’s point, I think the sudden rush to mail out checks to a bunch of people who’ve been impacted by Republican healthcare policies is a sign that they’re sweating the impact of those Republican healthcare policies. I don’t think that it is coming from a place of confidence. It is coming from a sweatier place, I believe. And it’s almost an acknowledgment that those folks need that money because their costs are so much higher, and that’s having a political impact. And I also think, you know, you’re seeing Republicans having to spend a lot of money campaigning in states that were previously considered safe red states. And some of those states have been particularly hard hit by rising health costs and a lot of people losing their insurance. I did a reporting trip to Ohio a little bit ago, and I saw so much evidence of that, and I know it’s happening in other states as well. 

Edney: I also think that everything that Paige and Alice just mentioned are really important, and, you know, these efforts to send out checks and talk about this in certain ways is it’s trying to fill this gap that the Trump administration sort of started by saying, Oh, we’re bringing down drug prices by 鈥� I don’t know, whatever mathematical impossibility that they said they brought them down in. And that’s not actually what people are seeing in their pocketbooks. So it’s at front of mind for them because I think maybe there was some expectation that something might happen, but that’s not what they’re seeing in their bills. 

Rovner: So another interesting finding from the poll is that support for that amorphous phrase “Medicare for All” is at its highest point in at least a decade. And while, as usual, support drops dramatically when people are told that it could mean higher taxes or longer wait times for care, support didn’t drop as much as usual when people were told Medicare for All could mean eliminating private insurance companies. It was, of course, the threat of losing your own coverage that doomed the Clinton healthcare plan and that almost sunk Obamacare on the launch pad. Are Americans finally ready for a big change, or do they just think they are until they see the specifics? 

Ollstein: Well, the question has sort of always been, like: How bad does it need to get before people are open to a radical alternative? And I think, really, until now, people have been happy enough 鈥� I won’t say happy; I’ll say happy enough 鈥� with a partially private, partially public, partially regulated, not partially unregulated healthcare system. Enough people were happy enough to keep these proposals at bay, and now you have so many people who can’t afford insurance, who can’t afford care even if they have insurance. There was some new studies out this week about the number of people with private insurance, what’s considered the good stuff, who still have tons of medical debt and are having to put off payments, you know, on other things and cut back in other areas of life to afford their healthcare. That is changing people’s minds and making people more open. Now, we know that what public sentiment is does not always translate into what Congress is willing to vote for. So I won’t say that it is going to be any kind of foregone conclusion, even if Democrats take back the majorities in Congress, but there’s definitely a shift going on. 

Winfield Cunningham: I was just gonna say to Alice’s point, just the fact that Congress just can’t do anything on healthcare, and you even had quite a lot of Republicans that wanted to extend the subsidies. Like, this is really an area that should have been ripe for bipartisan work, right? I mean, this is like the government subsidizing private plans, something, an idea in theory that Republicans should like and have supported in other ways. 

Rovner: It was a Republican idea! 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, exactly. And then also, when I’ve talked to Democrats about, like, what’s your biggest regret about the ACA, or what’s the thing that you wish you had done differently? Many have said to me: The cliff, the subsidy cliff, was not well done. You shouldn’t have a situation where people are going from subsidies to zero subsidies, and they’re still kind of like mid-income people. So this should have been an area that was ripe for bipartisan work last year. And we all saw what happened. It fell apart. So, I mean, even at this point, Congress is just so dysfunctional. They can’t even, they can’t even agree to fix pieces of a law, which now people kind of generally like. So that’s where we’re at. 

Rovner: Well, it’s funny. I would say one of the big ironies I’ve noticed is that, you know, you’ve got a lot of sort of more progressive Democrats this year running on Medicare for All, and Republicans, you know, that are saying: This is communism. This is socialism. We can’t have this. On the other hand, for the first time I can remember, Republicans are coming out very loudly about greedy insurance companies, which, even more ironically, isn’t really the biggest problem. It’s not what’s driving up healthcare costs. You know, the cost of care is what’s driving up healthcare costs. It’s not excessive insurer profits. But I wonder if the Republicans’ beating up on big insurance is like feeding this desire for Medicare for All 鈥� ironically. I mean, Republicans are terrified about ending up there, and yet I feel like they’re inadvertently pushing us that way. 

Edney: Well, I think they’re also hitting on the zeitgeist of the day. Like, they’re sending this message out because it’s one that’s being well received, and that people are very upset. You know, there was unfortunately the murder of the UnitedHealth[care] CEO Brian Thompson, and I think that that has, like, not abated in the sense that people are really angry, and that any politician who wants to talk about the big, bad insurance companies has free rein to do so. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, I think it’s really easy to get people really riled up about their insurance companies, even though, as you say, Julie, they are not collecting the biggest profits in the healthcare system. But your interaction with the insurer is not personal. You know, you just see this number that you have to pay them every month, and then you see copays you have to pay. Whereas you’re having a personal interaction typically when you’re at the hospital with the doctors and the nurses that are caring for you, and you’re going to see your physician. So there’s much blame to be spread around here in terms of healthcare costs going up, and, like, many villains in this industry. Maybe not. Maybe villains isn’t the right word, but many actors in this industry. But I think it is really easy to get people upset about insurers, in particular. 

Rovner: Yeah, I mean, some of it is that we’ve just invented things that are really cool, like GLP-1 drugs that happen to be really expensive. So that’s not necessarily a villain, but it is definitely one of the things that is driving up, at least at the moment, healthcare costs. 

Well, we need to move on. One of the things that’s pushed healthcare to the top of the concern list, as we’ve mentioned, oh, pretty much every week since the spring, is that while Republicans tried to time the Medicaid and other health spending cuts in their 2025 budget bill to , that message didn’t get to the hospitals, clinics, and state and local governments that are already making cuts in anticipation of lower federal funding to come. Plus, as we’ve said, millions of people saw their Affordable Care Act premiums skyrocket when Republicans declined to continue the expanded premium subsidies. Alice, you managed to see how a lot of this was playing out on the ground on the reporting trip you already referred to. What else did you find out there? 

Ollstein: Yeah, like you said, the effort to put off the more controversial cuts until after the election does not mean that this election will not be about those cuts. Those cuts are coming up in every debate, in every Democratic town hall and speech, and they’re in a lot of ads. And Democrats really see this as one of Republicans’ biggest liabilities going into the election, and they’re really trying to press their advantage there. And polling indicates that it may be working. And, like you said, even though those cuts, a lot of them, aren’t going to hit until 2027, states have to make their budgets now, and so they’re making these deep cuts to services in anticipation of losing all that Medicaid money. Hospitals need to make their budgets now. They are cutting services. They’re closing labor and delivery wards. They’re closing down entire facilities because they see the writing on the wall. And so I thought it was fascinating because I dug up an article my colleagues wrote last year when the bill was being debated and passed, and Democrats were worried that the delayed implementation would make it impossible for them to attack Republicans about it. And, lo and behold, that was not the case. 

Rovner: Yeah. Well, and even though the Medicaid work requirements included in that 2025 bill aren’t required to start until next January, several states have now either started early or started the process of notifying people that their Medicaid coverage will soon be contingent on their proving that they’re working. And 鈥� this is my shocked face 鈥� people are very confused. I will also post a link to a story from Montana Public Radio about how the rollout there has been, well, pun intended, kind of rocky. I thought AI [artificial intelligence] was going to make this process all smooth compared to the last time. That apparently is not the case. 

Edney: Definitely not. I mean, the article you’re referring to about Montana, I mean, it sounded very confusing. Something that you would think AI could sort of clear up is just getting the dates right when you need to be getting paperwork and stuff in, but even that wasn’t the case. 

Ollstein: And adding fuel on the fire here is that the federal administration has gone beyond what Congress ordered in terms of the harshness of the implementation of these work requirements. Even beyond that, certain states are implementing the work requirements in a harsher way than the federal government is requiring, and they are allowed to do that. And so, some are offering exemptions for certain populations, and some are saying no thanks to that. Some are saying, OK, for the first year you get kind of a grace period if you have a serious illness. We’ll just take your word for it if you testify that you have an illness that prevents you from working, and we won’t require, you know, a doctor note or other proof, just for the first year, and then after that you have to prove. But some states are saying: no one-year grace period. You need your proof now, or we’re kicking you off your insurance. And so I think all of those different layers of harsh enforcement are really hitting a lot of people, and we pretty much only have hard data out of Nebraska so far because they were so early in their implementation, way out in front of any other state. And there, we’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of people lose their insurance, and most of them was for, you know, procedural reasons, not because they were ineligible. And so I think that is a sort of canary in the coal mine of what we could see in other states once implementation becomes mandatory everywhere. 

Rovner: And wait until all these people have to go to their doctor, sort of hat in hand, saying you have to write me a note, or I’m going to lose my insurance. 

Winfield Cunningham: I just tend to think, and I haven’t followed this story quite as closely over the last couple of months, but I tend to think 鈥� that a lot of it is going to have to do with the nuts and bolts of what verification looks like, and each state is going to do that differently. And if you believe Dr. [Mehmet] Oz when he talks about this, he makes it sound as though it’s going to be this easy process where people have an app, and they can go into the app, and maybe they have to submit one document one time, but then they can go in and check a box or whatever. But in reality, maybe it’ll look like that in some states. Maybe it won’t look like that in some states. Yeah, if someone just has to go into an app and check something, fine. If someone’s having to log onto a website and get a document from their employer or their educational institution and submit this in a really tedious way, then I do think you’re going to see a lot of people dropping off. So I’m really curious to see what those nuts and bolts look like. 

Rovner: Yeah, I am too. We will clearly see more of this. 

All right, turning to vaccines, because there is always vaccine news. The measles case count in Pennsylvania has now topped 1,000, making it officially the biggest outbreak in 35 years. And some of the complications that doctors are seeing are among people who did not have underlying health conditions, which has been troubling. Even more troubling is a , now at the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. She reminds us that measles causes something called immune amnesia by basically erasing the body’s immunity to other germs, making those who have had measles more susceptible to other infections. So everyone who’s getting measles now is going to be more at risk in the future. And against that backdrop comes a , The New York Times’ Christina Jewett, about Texas Attorney General and Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton, who is investigating pediatricians in the state for what he claims are potential violations of the state’s deceptive trade practices law. Paxton’s office is demanding reams of paperwork from busy pediatric practices, trying to prove that they are pushing unnecessary vaccines in exchange for financial incentives provided by vaccine makers. Given how little profit is made on vaccines at every level of the distribution chain 鈥� so little that many vaccine makers have threatened to get out of the business altogether 鈥� this feels like a weird investigation. Do we know what’s behind it? 

Edney: I don’t think that we know for sure by any means, and there’s not even a ton of information on exactly what he’s investigating, but it does seem to fit with things that President Trump has gone after, that Secretary [Robert F.] Kennedy [Jr.] has talked about in the sense that Big Pharma is making money off of these things, pediatricians are being paid off, and we’ve heard this many times from them. You know, that’s a way they’ve tried to go after vaccines, and I think that Ken Paxton would like some backup from the president for other endeavors that he has in life, and so he was looking for some backup. And maybe that’s one of the reasons for this is, you know, to kind of look more aligned with the administration. 

Rovner: Yeah, he may not dress well, but at least he’s pursuing the president’s policies. 

Winfield Cunningham: I don’t have any inside information about it, but it does feel like a play to look quite aligned with an administration that is increasingly not shy about looking vaccine-skeptical. I mean, Trump has been very out there in recent months, signing the executive order, you know, talking about how, I guess, he says for his five kids their shots were spaced out. He has, you know, personal concerns about this. And then the other thing is it seems like this is attractive to Paxton’s base. You know, I mean, there are plenty of MAHA [Make Americans Healthy Again] moms in Texas who have, you know, left traditional pediatrician practices and gone more like the functional health route, where they go to these doctors who are willing to let them space or skip vaccines, so this seems like maybe a good political move for him. I’m not sure. 

Rovner: And I will just say before we leave this: There are lots of places where there’s clearly industry influence over prescribing practices and types of procedures. But I think the one place it’s fair to say that there is not a lot of profit being made is in vaccines. Vaccines are hanging on by a thread. I’ve been doing this for 40 years. I mean, I was there when they passed the Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, and it’s because all of the vaccine makers were threatening to stop making vaccines. It’s just not a place where there is lots of profit. 

All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. 

Turning to reproductive news, yesterday was the date that the FDA had to report to a federal court in Louisiana how that safety study of the abortion pill mifepristone is going. Alice, what did they say? 

Ollstein: Of course, they waited until, like, 9 p.m. on the deadline, which was very helpful to all of us reporters who were refreshing PACER [Public Access to Court Electronic Records] all day long. But we finally got it. It was not a very fulsome update, I would say. It was just a few pages long. And the main news is that they said we’re going to finish gathering all the data we need by December, but we’re not going to release a report. We’re going to need until March to crunch the numbers and draft our report on whether we deem mifepristone to be safe and effective. Now, I also think it was notable in there that they’re sort of separately studying the drugs’ safety and efficacy and the safety of the telehealth rules around it from 2023 that the Biden administration imposed. And they noted 鈥� and I thought this would, you know, maybe additionally piss off the anti-abortion groups who were already pissed off by the punt until March 鈥� they said that they will be examining the 2023 rule changes in light of both court challenges, saying that the current rules are too loose, and court rulings saying the current rules are too strict and access to 鈥�  

Rovner: Which we rarely talk about! 

Ollstein: Yes, but two different federal courts have ruled that the remaining restrictions on abortion pills are too strict and not justified, and that it would be safe without them. And so you have the FDA acknowledging these competing forces and pressures on it from the courts and from activist groups and from states. And so it really seems like they’re trying to walk this careful line to not piss off anyone, but they’re ending up pissing off everyone. And what I found really notable about the reaction to this filing was you have the pro-abortion rights forces saying, basically, you know, Wake up, sheeple, they’re waiting until right after the midterms and then they’re going to ban everything! And the anti-abortion groups don’t seem to think that’s the case; they do not seem confident that that is what is going to happen. They are blasting the administration not only for not doing more, to date, to impose restrictions on the drugs, but they do not seem to have confidence in this review process at all. So obviously, we don’t know what will happen. They shared very little detail about who’s in charge of this study, exactly what data are they incorporating? So it continues to be somewhat of a black box. 

Rovner: So, what does this all mean for the potential confirmation of Heidi Overton, the White House health policy aide who’s been nominated to head the FDA and had her confirmation hearing, at which she politely declined to answer most of the lawmakers’ questions, and the Senate left town without acting on said nomination? 

Winfield Cunningham: Well, I believe [Sen. Bill] Cassidy has not said yet how he’s going to vote on Overton. I imagine 鈥�  

Rovner: Cassidy, the chairman of the relevant committee. 

Winfield Cunningham: The outgoing Sen. Cassidy. Heidi was asked very pointedly, I think, by Sen. [Patty] Murray, “Do you believe this is safe and effective?” She gave a very carefully 鈥� you could tell her answers were very, very carefully rehearsed. I’m not sure what’s going to happen there, but I was going to say, as I think about after the election and kind of how all of this unfolds, I really have no idea. I think you could kind of argue it both ways. There are a lot of anti-abortion allies in key places at the Domestic Policy Council in certain offices within HHS. In some ways, this administration looks like a bit of a traditionally Republican administration. A lot of folks in there, when I talk to pro-lifers, they are, like, “We really have allies here.” But on the other hand, I think Trump’s kind of done with this. The White House still says he’s the most pro-life president. This is the pro-life president, they say. But he’s made it very clear that he doesn’t really want federal policymaking here. And then RFK Jr., he’s, like, Catholic, but I don’t think this is a top issue for him as well. So I’m genuinely curious. I do not know how they’re going to handle this. 

Rovner: I did not have on my bingo card Trump going with the anti-vaxxers but throwing the anti-abortion forces under the bus. Which, hey, everything’s a surprise. 

Ollstein: And to that point, you know, Cassidy is very anti-abortion, and so if he votes against Overton, it will not be because of her anti-abortion views. It will be because of vaccines or something else. You know, her general leadership abilities or whatnot, whatever else he’s concerned about. It’s not going to be about abortion. But you have some other people on that panel who could be concerned about her views on abortion that could affect her confirmation going forward. And I think it’s notable that that too is getting punted until after the election, so as not to provide any fodder or controversy for the members who are having to run. But I also think that there’s always another election coming up, and so, yes, they don’t want to rile people up right before the midterms with some sort of big sweeping anti-abortion action. But as soon as this election’s over, they’re going to be thinking about 2028 and not wanting to rock the boat there. And so I think these sort of political pressures are only going to continue. And we have seen in Congress and in the executive branch sort of an effort to tell the anti-abortion forces that are getting more and more and more frustrated: Just wait. Just be patient. You know, we’re going to get to you. We’re going to get to your priorities eventually. And it keeps not happening. So you’ve seen that on the defund Planned Parenthood front. They keep saying, Oh, it’s going to be in the next reconciliation bill. It’s going to be in the next one, the next one, the next one. 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, and it keeps not happening. And so you could see that again on this front as well. But, also, you know, whether as a result of a court ruling or just the FDA on its own, something could happen that really restricts drugs both in states with abortion bans and in states where they’re legally protected. This would affect the whole country. 

Rovner: All right. And sure enough, not only do we have outbreaks here in the U.S. of measles and other vaccine-preventable illnesses, there’s now a scary case out of Russia of a lab worker who died of a so-far-unidentified strain of pneumonia. Oh, and the patient worked at a lab in Siberia studying plague. Russian officials said that they have the situation under control, but I feel like we’ve heard that before somewhere? Um, I don’t know about you guys. I’m kind of watching this one with a wary eye. 

Edney: Yeah, I think that that is the right way to be when we have these very secretive countries, China with covid, and now Russia with the plague. Where these things start doesn’t lead to a lot of information getting out there, so filling the holes is very difficult. It sounds like the U.S. government doesn’t really even know a whole lot, and we’ve had assurances from Russia that everything is under control. But where’s the proof? I guess. It hasn’t really manifested. So I think watching it closely is right. No need to panic. There’s been no verified reports of anyone else dying at that lab, but, you know, certainly something not to turn away from. 

Rovner: Finally this week, we’ve talked in the past about how doctors no longer want to be associated with helping carry out the death penalty by lethal injection. Well, in Tennessee, we saw yet another botched execution with the patient surviving not one, but two injections intended to end her life. Fifty-year-old Christa Pike, who was on death row for her part in the torture and murder of a classmate when she was 18, was awake and talking as of Wednesday after being unconscious for several days. And it’s not clear what will happen to her now. In the meantime, though, Tennessee’s governor has put a moratorium on executions in the state for the rest of the year and ordered an independent review of what happened. This was the second time this year the state has failed to successfully carry out an execution. I will link to a story from Nashville Public Radio’s Catherine Sweeney, who is an official media witness for both unsuccessful executions. I will warn you: It’s really vivid. It also raises the question of whether lethal injection, which was supposed to be a more “humane,” air quotes, alternative to hanging or an electric chair, really is. Particularly given that many doctors and now many drug companies won’t participate on ethical grounds, and states are turning to some pretty questionable and, as we’ve seen, not always successful protocols, are we sort of getting to the end of this? Anna, I see you nodding. 

Edney: Yeah, I think that these botched executions and the most recent one have given a lot for the anti-capital-punishment groups to work with and to make their case about torture and that this isn’t something humane that we should be doing in the United States; we’re one of the few developed countries that does do that. And you brought up the point about medications and how a lot of the pharmaceutical companies don’t even want to give them to the corrections facilities anymore. And the problem is then those facilities need to find the drugs somewhere. They’re maybe going to less reputable places, or keeping them, the ones they do find, on hand for too long past their expiration date. And so it’s clearly not working out, when maybe if you had the perfect protocol and the drug just off the line of a very respectable company, things might work. But that’s not what’s been happening. 

Rovner: Yeah, I think we’re going to watch that space. All right, that is this week’s news. Now we’ll play my “Bill of the Month” interview with Michelle Andrews. Then we’ll come back and do our extra credits. 

I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month.” Hi, Michelle. It’s been a minute. 

Michelle Andrews: Hi, Julie. It’s great to be here. 

Rovner: So this month’s patient was sent to the emergency room by an urgent care doctor for a particularly severe migraine attack. Tell us who she is, where she’s from, how she ended up at the hospital. 

Andrews: Sure. Her name is Autumn Daniels, and she lives in Champaign, Illinois, and she has a history of severe migraines back to when she was a kid, like a 10-year-old. And so she gets them regularly, more regularly now. And she had had this migraine for seven days, and finally, the urgent care doc said, “If you still are having trouble tomorrow, you need to go to the emergency room.” Because they’d given her some, you know, a shot to help relieve the symptoms, and it hadn’t worked. So she ended up at the emergency room, with her sister, and waited a long time for care. 

Rovner: So once she got there, she got triaged, right 鈥� checked by a nurse to see how serious her ailment was compared to others waiting to be seen. Then what happened? 

Andrews: Sure, I just want to say a word about triage because the hospital kind of makes a big deal of that. It’s just checking her temperature, her pulse, and her blood pressure, and asking her, “Do you often get migraines?” So they did this little bit of “care,” in quotes, and then they sent her back out to the waiting room, and she waited, with her sister. And she waited, for four hours, and nothing happened. 

Rovner: So she leaves and goes to another ER where she does get seen and treated, but then she gets a bill from the first ER, too. How much was it, and what did they say it was for? 

Andrews: The bill was for $410, and they said it was for an emergency room Level 1 visit, and they also stuck a procedural code on it that said that it had been an evaluation and management visit, meaning that some medical care had been provided by a healthcare provider. 

Rovner: Which was questionable, right? 

Andrews: Absolutely questionable. 

Rovner: So, is this a new thing? Hospitals billing for patients who don’t get beyond the initial triage? 

Andrews: Well, it’s new for this hospital, which I thought was interesting. Their policy changed, starting in March, I believe it was, where they said, oh, you know: If you come into our hospital, even if you don’t get treated by a provider, we can still bill you because we’re using up our staff time and we have to keep our facility running. And so that’s the justification that they use. Let me just say, I don’t know that other hospitals do it, but I don’t think it’s that rare, from what I understand. 

Rovner: And her insurance company was not buying this, right? 

Andrews: Exactly. They covered her second ER visit, and that was fine, where she got treated. But this whole, you know, You came to the hospital and you left without getting treatment. Sorry, we’re not going to cover that. 

Rovner: Because technically they said she left against medical advice, right? 

Andrews: Exactly, and of course she didn’t actually receive advice. But I did ask some experts in billing about this, and they said, Well, from the insurer’s perspective, what that often means is that, you know, she didn’t get care at the facility by a provider, and so she’s leaving against their advice, basically. 

Rovner: So, what’s the takeaway here? Is there a way to prevent something like this from happening? 

Andrews: I think there is no way to easily prevent it, but you can certainly ask when you arrive at the hospital, at the ER desk, with your throbbing headache, you can say, “Oh, what happens if I wait and I don’t get care?” You can check with your insurance company and ask them. You know, you would do that perhaps if you were someone who often ended up at the ER, but it’s not something most of us are going to think about. And then let me just say, you can, of course, appeal, and you should appeal if you’re not getting the answers or you’re getting billed in a way that you shouldn’t be billed. 

Rovner: Yeah, I love the kicker of your story: If you don’t appeal, the answer is always no. 

Andrews: Always no. Yes, exactly. 

Rovner: But still, I mean, another list of things that you need to do when you’re in an emergency health situation. Awesome. 

Andrews: I know, I know, and I think there was some conversation about well, you know, you signed these papers, and she’s like, Of course I signed the papers. I can’t be held responsible for the papers. I couldn’t 鈥� I could barely see. I was vomiting every 10 minutes. 

Rovner: Anyway, thank you for following this. And yet another thing to beware of when you go to the emergency room. Michelle Andrews, thanks for doing this. 

Andrews: Thanks, Julie. 

Rovner: OK, we are back. It’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Alice, why don’t you go first this week? 

Ollstein: Yeah, I have a story from my colleague Carmen Paun. It’s called “,” and it is how that approach to foreign policy and foreign aid is playing out in the healthcare space, where the CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] is now closing offices it had in a bunch of other countries that were supporting local health systems there and also helping to monitor for outbreaks of infectious diseases. Nothing bad ever came from overseas, as we know! And so there’s a lot of worry about this. There is a lot of prediction over both the cuts that have come to HIV prevention and a bunch of other things, increased risk of outbreaks, but also just an inability to have early detection going forward. And there’s going to be some big appropriations fights about this that she previews in the story. 

Rovner: Good story. Paige. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, mine is a New York Times story by Reed Abelson and Teddy Rosenbluth called “.” And I thought this was a really, really interesting story. It’s basically talking about how hospitals are running their coding through AI tools, and the AI is basically picking up more complicated conditions and then adding secondary conditions to basically maximize the number of things that they can bill the insurers for. And I had heard rumblings about this, and I remember actually talking to my sister last year, and she was telling me how they haul in the nurses and actually put them through training sessions of how to code for maximal return. And so it’s easy to see how if you’re now just starting to run this stuff through AI, they’re finding ways to just, you know, upcode as much as possible. So something to really watch amid this larger conversation about healthcare costs ballooning. 

Rovner: Indeed. Anna. 

Edney: Mine is from Annie Waldman at ProPublica: “.” Obviously, it’s an awful story about this baby who was given raw milk and contracted a terrible case of E. coli, and she’s going to have lifelong problems from this. It’s not just some simple thing. But I think the really important point that a lot of coverage before I haven’t seen as much of is that this was in California. The state really couldn’t do a whole lot. This farmer had sold potentially contaminated raw milk, and that’s not supposed to be something, even contaminated or not, that is sold. But there really wasn’t a lot that the state could do. When they even went to collect samples, they couldn’t enter the farm. They had to tell her they were coming back tomorrow to collect samples to test the milk. So, I mean, you can imagine all the things you could do to make sure the milk is clean by then. So I think it was an interesting look at why maybe this is proliferating right now. The FDA certainly isn’t doing a whole lot, given the secretary’s support for raw milk, and then it seems to be like the states’ hands are tied as well. 

Rovner: Yeah, it was a really good story. Well, my extra credit this week is an amazing read from Sarah Zhang at The Atlantic. It’s called “,” and it’s about a rare but tragic medical mystery involving mostly young men who fail to wake up normally from anesthesia, even for minor procedures. I won’t spoil the solution to the mystery, but it’s really a testament to smart and persistent moms for figuring out what happened and why, and working to prevent it from happening to more people in the future. You really need to read it. 

All right, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts 鈥� as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X and on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging about these days? Alice? 

Ollstein: Mostly on Bluesky , and still on X . 

Rovner: Anna. 

Edney: All the places . 

Rovner: Paige. 

Winfield Cunningham: And I’m mostly on X . 

Rovner: We will be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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鈥楳edicare for All鈥� Message Attracts Voters Buckling Under Medical Bills /elections/medicare-for-all-abdul-el-sayed-michigan-midterm-elections/ Wed, 07 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2294066 LANSING, Mich. 鈥� Christina Starks-Clay doesn’t know how “Medicare for All” would work exactly, but she’s willing to bet it’d be better than what she has now.

Standing in line for U.S. Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed’s town hall in the state’s capital in September, she whipped out her phone to pull up a screenshot. It was of the $1,000 cashier’s check she’d picked up at the bank that day to pay down a chunk of her son’s dental bills. An early childhood special education paraprofessional, she still owed $389, even with good dental insurance. Her own cleaning a few weeks before cost $600.

She tried to talk herself down at the bank, to focus on being grateful for what she could afford.

“I’m like, 鈥楾ina, OK, you were in a position for this moment to do this,’” she said. “A lot of people couldn’t do what I had to do today. I couldn’t do it. But I did it. So I need to hear, how are you going to make this better for everyone?”

Many who waited in the hot sun that afternoon in a line stretching blocks through downtown Lansing shared similar anxieties. A man ahead of Starks-Clay talked about watching his brother rack up thousands of dollars in medical debt. A professor emeritus at nearby Michigan State University worried aloud about his grandkids’ medical care, because his adult kids were struggling to meet a $9,000 insurance deductible. Healthcare workers who’d turned up for the event described patients choosing between affording medication or food, or how they themselves had been financially devastated by a medical crisis.

They all knew Michigan Democrat El-Sayed’s rallying cry by heart, chanting it when the candidate took the stage: “Money out of politics! Money in your pocket! Medicare for All!”

Abdul El-Sayed stands at a podium in an event space. He is surrounded on both sides by supporters holding signs.
Abdul El-Sayed (D-Mich.) speaks at a rally in Detroit on Aug. 7. (Emily Elconin/Bloomberg via Getty Images)

Support for Medicare for All is at its highest in at least a decade, according to a . The survey found two-thirds of Americans now favor expanding the government health program that largely covers seniors (about are enrolled in private plans through Medicare Advantage).

But many people don’t actually know how to define Medicare for All. Traditionally, the idea has been to establish a single health insurance program, run by the federal government, that would guarantee coverage for Americans and minimize or even eliminate private insurance. How much people like the idea depends on what they’re told about it, pollsters have found.

Still, at a time when of Americans say they can afford their healthcare, Medicare for All has become a progressive shorthand for radical, systemic change.

“Too many people don’t have health insurance, too many people who do have insurance can’t afford medical care, and many people are terrified about the costs of being sick,” said Jonathan Oberlander, a professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill who specializes in the politics of healthcare reform.

“And in an electorate that wants change, that is disenchanted with the status quo, Medicare for All is an important symbol,” he said.

That’s why Democrats running for Senate seats in the midterm elections in such states as Maine, Minnesota, and Florida tout their support for scrapping the current health insurance system in favor of broad Medicare coverage. But nowhere is the issue as central to a race as in Michigan, where Medicare for All has become synonymous with El-Sayed.

El-Sayed, who trained as a doctor and served as Detroit’s top public health official, has campaigned on Medicare for All since his unsuccessful bid for governor in 2018. To Starks-Clay, that means he has a plan and will “stick to it,” she said.

That’s appealing to voters right now, said Ashley Kirzinger, director of survey methodology at KFF, a health information nonprofit that includes 吃瓜不打烊. “When we ask people what do they want to hear from candidates in regards to healthcare, it’s a plan to bring down healthcare costs.”

American Dream or Pipe Dream?

Medicare for All has been the shiny object of progressive politics in previous campaigns, including Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ 2016 presidential bid and the 2020 Democratic presidential primary. Its popularity rises and falls in cycles, Oberlander said. And today people are painfully aware their care is getting more expensive and harder to access.

In the first decade or so after the passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2010, the nation’s uninsured rate was cut . Insurance companies could no longer deny people coverage based on preexisting conditions. Since then, to cover more people, 40 states plus Washington, D.C., have expanded Medicaid, the government health program for those with low incomes or disabilities.

Now it feels as if we’re moving backward, Oberlander said. “We are now, in the past two years, in an era where the Trump administration and congressional Republicans have reversed that progress.”

Michigan, a battleground state that President Donald Trump won in 2024, saw some of the after the GOP-controlled Congress allowed enhanced tax subsidies, which helped people afford their premiums, to expire at the end of last year. Insurance companies in Michigan hiked individual marketplace rates by an average of 20%. And up to 355,000 Michiganders are expected to lose their Medicaid coverage in 2028 because of cuts included in Trump’s signature law, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, according to estimates from the , a left-leaning think tank.

At El-Sayed’s town hall in Lansing, Darleana Ash said patients at the medical diagnostics lab where she works are increasingly skipping tests because they can’t afford them. Others drive hours from rural areas because their local labs have closed or are no longer in their insurance networks. She worries about the patients who must choose between their medications and groceries some months.

“If you got somebody that’s 75, 80 years old, guess what? They’re going to go without the medication, because they got to eat,” she said.

Packed in near the front of the crowded town hall was Cindy Lou Coolich, a boisterous retiree wearing a campaign T-shirt and cowboy hat. She spent years working for a company that helped uninsured people enroll in coverage, until she got sick herself. A bout of sepsis nearly killed her and left her disabled. Suddenly, she was the one enrolling in Medicaid and living on $900 a month from Social Security.

She lost the 15-acre horse farm she’d owned, and then everything else, she said. “Except my car.” The saving grace, oddly, was the death of her ex-husband. Because they’d been married for more than 10 years, she could benefit from his Social Security benefits. “So now I’m doing quite well!” she laughed. But to her, it hardly seemed like the mark of a functioning healthcare system that someone had to die for things to get better.

A Universal Response

Democrats aren’t the only ones responding to voters’ healthcare discontent. Republican Mike Rogers, a former Michigan congressman and El-Sayed’s opponent, recently .

“I just can’t think of a more important issue to the people of Michigan than healthcare and costs, the rising costs,” he said. At a announcing his health platform, he broadly attacked El-Sayed and Medicare for All.

“[If] the government’s going to give you something, they have to take it away from someone else,” Rogers said.

Mike Rogers gives a thumbs up on stage at a rally. Supporters behind him hold American flags.
Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) at a rally in Sterling Heights, Michigan, on Aug. 31. (Sarah Rice/Bloomberg via Getty Images)

Under Medicare for All, millions of Michiganders with private health insurance would lose that coverage, he said. Pointing to estimates that Medicare for All would cost some $4 trillion per year, he said, “Guess what? People pay for that.” (A recent researchers found that the cost of implementing Medicare for All, estimated at $4.2 trillion, would save about $1 trillion in healthcare spending.) Rogers’ campaign declined an interview request from 吃瓜不打烊.

Concerns about increased taxation, disruption to the current system, and reduced access to services can make Medicare for All a political liability in a close election, Oberlander said. “It doesn’t matter if the fears that they’re spreading are actually accurate,” he said. “Politically, what matters is if they can scare people.”

But even if El-Sayed wins in November, the chances of Medicare for All replacing the current system “remain very remote in the short to medium term,” Oberlander said.

Given the staunch opposition from Republicans and many moderate Democrats, not to mention the lobbying power of the healthcare industry, massively overhauling the U.S. health system won’t suddenly be achievable because of a single Senate candidate.

Thomas “Jermaine” Carey knows this. A self-described activist, he attended a recent El-Sayed town hall in Detroit feeling “kind of sold out” by what he calls the “straight-ticket” Democratic Party. Medicare for All sounds good, he said. “Do I believe it?” He shrugged.

“It’s still America,” he said. “You still have super PACs, the lobbyists that control everything.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Trump鈥檚 Immigration Crackdown Divides Rural Voters, KFF-AP Poll Finds /rural-health/ap-kff-rural-voter-poll-midterms-immigration-crackdown-views-economy/ Mon, 05 Oct 2026 10:01:00 +0000 /?p=2292299 More than a year into President Donald Trump’s sweeping immigration crackdown, a poll finds that voters in rural parts of the country are divided on whether those immigration policies have benefited or harmed their communities.

In the Associated Press-KFF survey of more than 2,000 rural voters in August, about a third said the Trump administration’s immigration enforcement had been positive for their community and about a third said it had been negative. The remaining 3 in 10, roughly, said it had no impact.

Trump promised tough enforcement on the campaign trail in 2024, and the survey highlights how a cornerstone of his base, rural supporters of his Make America Great Again movement, are especially likely to say they see a benefit where they live from the Republican president’s stringent immigration policies.

Yet many rural voters also say immigrants are a key part of their local economies, and some believe Trump’s immigration actions have gone too far.

Laura Leigh Taylor, a 37-year-old farmer who voted for Trump in 2024, said she disapproves of the wide-ranging scope of Trump’s immigration crackdown, which resulted in a friend’s hardworking father being deported.

“I understand getting rid of the rapists and the murderers,” she said. “But all the people that fell in between, that really weren’t doing nothing but taking care of their family, … they got torn from their families.”

Taylor now regrets her vote for Trump. As a resident of Smithville, Georgia, a town of about 600, Taylor thinks she will vote for Democratic Sen. Jon Ossoff in November because, she said, the Democrats have been the ones talking about families being uprooted by Trump’s immigration enforcement.

“Just because of that simple fact, I’m going to go with him,” Taylor said.

Laura Leigh Taylor stands in a field in Georgia. The front of a truck and a child's bicycle are seen amidst the trees behind her.
Taylor regrets voting for Trump in 2024. (Matt Odom for 吃瓜不打烊)

Most Rural Voters Want Politicians To Talk About Immigration

Roughly three-quarters of rural voters say it’s “extremely” or “very” important for midterm candidates to talk about immigration, though that’s lower than the share who want them to address the cost of living, fraud in government programs, or healthcare costs.

Rural voters don’t overwhelmingly think Trump’s immigration policies have helped their communities, but they are also less likely than the general public to say that Trump has overstepped in his efforts, which have involved mass deportations and rapid deportations of immigrants to countries where they have no ties.

Only about 4 in 10 rural voters say Trump has “gone too far” in restricting legal immigration or deporting immigrants living in the U.S. without authorization, below the 55% of U.S. adults overall who said the same in a September AP-NORC poll.

John Thomas, a 55-year-old from Liberty, Kentucky, supports Trump’s efforts to deport people without legal status. Thomas, who has just been approved for disability benefits after injuring his back in 2008, believes they put too much of a burden on the healthcare system. Regulating immigration, he said, is a means of providing better healthcare to Americans.

“They’ve been taking from everybody,” Thomas said of immigrants. “People that really need this stuff can’t get it because of them.”

David Grabowski, a professor of healthcare policy at Harvard Medical School, said that research suggests immigrants use less healthcare than native-born Americans. “It is hard to argue that they are placing an undue burden on the system,” he said, because many immigrants work in healthcare and pay taxes.

Most Rural Voters See Immigrants’ Economic Importance

Immigrants often play key roles in sustaining local industries, including by filling jobs in manufacturing, healthcare, and agriculture. The survey suggests the vast majority of rural voters see immigrants in the country legally as an important part of their local economies.

Shannon Monnat, director of the Center for Policy Research at Syracuse University and president of the Rural Sociological Society, said immigration has been a demographic lifeline for much of rural America. Rural areas have been losing young adults for years, she said.

“For a lot of small towns, immigrants are the reason the school and hospital stayed open and the county didn’t shrink,” Monnat said.

About 7 in 10 rural voters see immigrants who are in the country legally as “very” or “somewhat” important to their local economies, and a similar share say the same about temporary or seasonal agriculture workers. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants take seasonal jobs on U.S. farms each year, with most of them coming from Mexico, on H-2A visas.

Rural voters with a connection to agriculture and farming are more likely than those without one to say that temporary or seasonal workers are “very important” to their local economies, the poll found.

Jeff Miller, a 56-year-old Republican hydro blaster and vacuum technician, has mostly been pleased with Trump’s agenda, and he believes things are “heading in the right direction.” The one thing Miller has struggled with is Trump’s aggressive immigration policy, which he blames for the deportation of a “really good worker” and friend, who was removed from the U.S. when his work permit expired.

Miller, from Racine, Ohio, said he would support exceptions for hard workers, or just a less aggressive approach.

“There’s kind of an up-and-down thing because I lost a really good friend over that,” Miller said.

Rural voters are much less likely to say immigrants who are in the country illegally are beneficial, but 45% say they are at least “somewhat” important to local economies.

Albert Martinez, a 70-year-old Democrat from San Diego, Texas, voted for Trump in 2016, but he now believes the Trump administration has “gone amok.” The Army veteran said he is a proponent of getting criminals out of the country, but that is not what he is seeing happening with current immigration enforcement.

“They started doing everybody across the board,” Martinez said. “Innocent kids and women, people who work in restaurants, people who work in hotels, people who are building homes, people who are doing masonry work, and innocent, good, taxpaying people. Taxpayers. It’s insane.”

Rural MAGA Voters Support Trump’s Immigration Policies

Some of Trump’s most loyal supporters 鈥� rural Republicans who consider themselves MAGA supporters 鈥� are about twice as likely as rural, non-MAGA Republicans to see a benefit to Trump’s immigration policies where they live.

Roughly 4 in 10 rural voters identify as MAGA Republicans, while about 1 in 10 are Republicans but not MAGA supporters.

About two-thirds of rural MAGA Republicans say Trump’s immigration policies have had a positive impact where they live. Roughly half say the Trump administration has “not gone far enough” on deporting immigrants in the country illegally, while about half say his actions have been “about right.”

Katherine Reed, a 27-year-old Republican who supports the MAGA movement, has been pleased to see the Trump administration’s deportation policies play out. The resident of Mount Pleasant, Texas, believes her community has always been safe but that the administration’s policies have had a positive impact by reducing violent crime nationwide, saying, “It’s made life for people a lot safer.”

She believes if someone comes to America, they should “respect the law of the land” and “do it legally.”

“I want really amazing people to become Americans,” Reed said. “That’s the whole point of America.”

About the Poll

The KFF-AP Rural Voters Survey was conducted online and by telephone Aug. 12-24, 2026, among 2,241 registered voters living in rural areas, defined as census tracts that fall within codes 5-10 of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s 2020 Rural-Urban Commuting Area codes. Voters were reached through a combination of the probability-based SSRS Opinion Panel and a registration-based sample from the L2 voter file. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, including design effects due to weighting. Error margins are larger for subgroups. In collaboration with the AP, KFF researchers worked to design the survey sample and questionnaire and analyze and report findings.

This report is from a collaboration between 吃瓜不打烊 and The Associated Press.

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Midterms Have Revived Universal Healthcare Debate. These States Are Ahead of Everyone. /elections/single-payer-universal-healthcare-debate-midterms-oregon-proposal/ Fri, 02 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2290549 Democratic congressional members and candidates are already planning to use any midterm election gains to , including boosting Affordable Care Act subsidies, reversing Medicaid cuts, and lowering the Medicare eligibility age.

But Democratic strongholds across the country 鈥� including Oregon, California, , and 鈥� have more ambitious goals: single-payer, universal healthcare systems.

No state is closer to that goal than Oregon. A panel created by the state legislature in 2023 is slated to send lawmakers its proposal for a universal health plan by Dec. 1. The nine-person seeks to establish, starting in 2032, medical, vision, dental, and mental health benefits for every state resident from cradle to grave 鈥� with no premiums, deductibles, or copayments. Lawmakers could vote on a plan during the 2027 legislative session or refer it to voters as a ballot measure in 2028.

If approved, the state would be the first in the U.S. to implement what’s called a single-payer health coverage system. It could serve as a model for other states 鈥� and potentially the nation.

Proponents of the proposal argue that the public supports universal healthcare more than ever as healthcare spending and complexity grow. patients often delay care due to out-of-pocket costs. And medical debt remains a in the nation.

States have often served as laboratories to test health policies later implemented nationally. The Affordable Care Act was modeled after Massachusetts’ attempt to achieve universal health insurance coverage, once single-payer efforts there stalled. And Canada’s universal healthcare system began with a provincial plan in Saskatchewan.

“In the short to medium term, there is no chance that 鈥楳edicare for All’ can be passed at the national level,” said , a University of North Carolina health policy professor. “That’s where the states come in. A state like Oregon provides a more hospitable political environment and a more realistic path to single-payer reform.”

But advocates of the plan expect a significant fight from healthcare behemoths, including large hospital systems, seeking to sour public opinion on making such widespread changes. are health insurers. The industry’s deep pockets have helped derail myriad universal healthcare efforts at the federal and state levels.

In 2011, the Vermont Legislature voted to implement a universal healthcare plan but, three years later, Democratic Gov. Peter Shumlin, who had campaigned on the promise of single-payer, pulled the plug, citing “potential economic disruption.”

States that took the issue directly to voters have fared no better. Ballot measures in in 2016, in 2002, and in 1994 all failed by large margins.

“The aspirations of progressive reformers usually run smack into sobering political realities,” Oberlander said. “Translating a slogan into a legislative and political reality is a daunting task.”

A man wearing a blazer over a bright red shirt stands in front of a crowd while speaking into a microphone in an outdoor setting.
Valdez Bravo, president of Health Care for All Oregon, speaks at the nonprofit’s annual garden party in Portland on Sept. 12. The state will soon consider a plan for universal health coverage that the state legislature ordered in 2023. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Redirected Healthcare Dollars

Oregon’s proposal seeks to maintain the current level of spending on healthcare by government, business, and consumers with new corporate and personal taxes to replace insurance premiums and other out-of-pocket costs. Those would be combined with federal and state spending to create a single fund from which all hospitals, doctors, and other practitioners would be paid.

Board members said savings from cutting red tape, reducing fraud, and negotiating drug costs should allow the state to provide better benefits to more people.

In , the board estimated that a 30-year-old making $55,000 and purchasing a benchmark silver-level plan through the Affordable Care Act now pays $5,478 a year for insurance premiums in Oregon, but instead could pay $2,331 in taxes under the proposed plan.

Someone making $55,000 a year with coverage through their employer now pays $3,063 in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. Under the draft plan, that person could pay nothing for health services and could see any doctor in the state.

Currently, many employers pay much of the health insurance costs for their workers. The plan seeks to maintain those contributions by establishing a corporate payroll tax for companies whose payrolls exceed $500,000. Their employees could receive a partial tax credit for the taxes their employers pay. As a result, 31% to 60% of Oregonians wouldn’t pay anything for health benefits.

More affluent people, however, could end up paying more than they do now. The exact numbers would depend on how lawmakers set tax rates and payment thresholds.

“What we are proposing is something very different,” said , executive director of the Oregon board. “Everyone contributes based on the amount that they are able to contribute and not based on utilization.”

A man stands at a vendor table outdoors. He has signs, pins, and other information about "Health Care for All Oregon."
A work group created by the state legislature in 2023 is slated to send lawmakers its proposal for a universal health plan by Dec. 1. Lawmakers could vote on the plan as soon as the next legislative session or refer it to a ballot measure in 2028. The nonprofit Health Care for All Oregon hosted a garden party on Sept. 12 ahead of the reveal. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)
Pamphlets with information about "Health Care for All Oregon" are stacked on a red table.
Backers of the universal healthcare coverage plan will try to convince hospitals and health systems that they would benefit from reducing red tape and eliminating unpaid bills. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Messaging Challenge Lies Ahead

The plan’s backers will try to convince hospitals and health systems that they would benefit from reducing red tape and eliminating unpaid bills. Currently, hospitals to bill dozens of public and private health plans, each with its own coverage and billing rules. A single plan covering everyone in the state could streamline the process, saving billions.

Rural hospitals could gain financial stability. They now often struggle to stay afloat because they typically have higher rates of patients who are uninsured or on Medicaid, with its often low reimbursement rates.

Hospitals aren’t so sure.

“The universal health plan proposal preserves much of the broken, fragmented status quo and adds new taxes and complexity that Oregonians can’t afford,” said Becky Hultberg, president and CEO of the . “With federal policy changes looming, we are entering a period of tremendous upheaval. This proposal could destabilize a system that is already struggling.”

Under the proposal, doctors and other practitioners would be paid somewhere between what Medicare pays on the low end and what private insurance pays on the high end. Although total payments to doctors would remain unchanged, rates would be negotiated with physician groups to shift more money into primary care and less into specialty services.

But it is unclear whether doctors would agree that more patient time, fewer administrative hurdles, and no more unpaid bills would be worth a payment structure that could cause specialists to lose out.

A woman with dark, straight black hair tied up in a bun stands for a photo. She has a plastic name tag attached to her shirt that says, "Healthcare for All Oregon / Rebecca Shcoon."
Rebecca Schoon, an associate professor at Pacific University who attended last month’s Health Care for All Oregon garden party, says that communicating what universal healthcare is will be one of the biggest challenges ahead for Oregon’s proposed plan. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

“There’s always winners and losers in designing something like this, and so how to distribute those is the hardest part,” said , an associate health policy professor at Pacific University who is slated to join the Oregon board in January. “But the second-hardest part is, I think, messaging this.”

Courtni Dresser, vice president of government relations for the , said her physicians group shares many of the board’s goals in improving access to care and reducing administrative burdens. But the group has yet to declare its support or opposition to the effort.

Health insurers haven’t formally weighed in on Oregon’s proposal either, but a single-payer system would, in essence, close off Oregon to any private healthcare plans.

“We expect insurance companies to put every ounce of money they can against this idea because our system is broken and they profit from it,” said Collin Stackhouse, communications coordinator for , a consumer group advocating for universal healthcare.

, a former insurance company executive who now works to expose industry influence, said he expects health plans to hammer the Oregon proposal with claims of high taxes, loss of choice, and the specter of “socialized medicine.”

“Most people go year to year without testing the limits of their health insurance policy,” Potter said. “And so, they’re easily scared into thinking that something valuable will be taken away from them, and that they will have something that’s inferior in its place.”

Health insurers argue their health plans help shield consumers from the full impact of rising healthcare costs.

“Americans consistently report strong satisfaction with their health coverage, including more than 180 million covered through work and 36 million who choose Medicare Advantage,” said Chris Bond, a spokesperson for the health insurance . “Policy solutions are needed to rein in the ever-higher prices charged by hospitals and drugmakers and make care more affordable for everyone.”

A man wearing plaid is holding a canned beverage while speaking to another man close beside him. A button is visible on the man in plaid's shirt, it says "Health Care for All Oregon."
Volunteers converse at the Sept. 12 garden party in Portland. Oregon’s legislature created a work group in 2023 to draw up a plan to create universal healthcare in the state. The proposal is due Dec. 1. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Federal Approval Needed

It’s unclear whether Oregon could secure federal approval to redirect Medicare and Medicaid dollars into its universal plan. Backers of the proposal do not expect the Trump administration to be receptive but say it will be years before approval is needed and hope the 2028 presidential election ushers in a more supportive administration. If federal waivers are not secured, Oregon could proceed in stages, starting with the non-Medicare population.

In California, Democratic candidates for governor are not debating whether to implement single-payer but how. New York lawmakers are debating a single-payer bill called the . And in Washington, state legislators have created a commission to design a universal healthcare plan.

The Oregon board has had regular contact with teams working on single-payer proposals in California and Washington, sharing approaches and looking for ways to collaborate, McDonell said.

, an Oregon family physician and a member of Physicians for a National Health Program, said he could envision the other West Coast states joining Oregon in implementing single-payer, much as California, Washington, and 贬补飞补颈鈥榠 have in to counter changes in federal vaccine recommendations.

“If our four states could do it,” he said, “that would be the momentum we would need to get it nationally.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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The MAHA Metamorphosis /podcast/what-the-health-465-maha-movement-rfk-jr-trump-hhs-spending-october-1-2026/ Thu, 01 Oct 2026 18:50:00 +0000 /?p=2292271&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2292271 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 吃瓜不打烊 Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 吃瓜不打烊’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

The big “Make America Healthy Again” summit at a glitzy Washington, D.C., hotel this week highlighted a split in the movement between moms who want pesticides and artificial ingredients out of their kids’ food and wellness entrepreneurs who want to promote their products to government regulators.

Meanwhile, as the new fiscal year begins, the Trump administration is refusing for the second year in a row to spend hundreds of millions of dollars Congress approved for the Department of Health and Human Services 鈥� and daring lawmakers or the courts to try to do something about it.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 吃瓜不打烊, Shefali Luthra of The 19th, Rachana Pradhan of 吃瓜不打烊, and Rachel Roubein of The Washington Post.

Panelists

Shefali Luthra photo
Shefali Luthra The 19th
Rachana Pradhan photo
Rachana Pradhan 吃瓜不打烊 Read Rachana's stories.
Rachel Roubein photo
Rachel Roubein The Washington Post

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • The transformation of the Make America Healthy Again movement was on display at a MAHA Institute meeting in Washington this week. The gathering featured wellness companies hawking their wares and largely steered clear of the movement’s core issues, such as vaccines and pesticides. Many MAHA adherents have expressed disillusionment with the Trump administration, seeing it as favoring corporate interests over their priorities, and some progressives are starting to make a play for the support of these disaffected activists.
  • The Trump administration is again attempting to cancel some congressionally appropriated health funding via a controversial strategy known as a pocket rescission. The 2026 fiscal year concluded this week, effectively running out the clock for Congress to force the Trump administration to distribute that money 鈥� and with the House already recessed until after the midterm elections.
  • And the Hyde Amendment turned 50 this week. The legislative measure prohibits federal funding from being used to pay for abortions, effectively banning Medicaid funding of pregnancy termination unless states opt to spend their own money to offer that benefit for those who are low-income or disabled.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Aaron Carroll, president and CEO of AcademyHealth, to discuss the Trump administration’s dismantling of the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too: 

Julie Rovner: The New York Times’ “,” by Madaleine Rubin.

Shefali Luthra: The Atlantic’s “,” by Caitlin Dickerson.

Rachana Pradhan: 吃瓜不打烊’ “US Poised To Boot Legal Immigrants From Medicaid, Including Refugees and Sex-Trafficking Victims,” by Phil Galewitz, Andrew Jones, and Claudia Boyd-Barrett.

Rachel Roubein: Stat’s “” by Elaine Chen.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Rachel Roubein.
  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Rachel Roubein.
  • The New York Times’ “,” by Apoorva Mandavilli.
Click to open the transcript Transcript: The MAHA Metamorphosis

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 吃瓜不打烊 and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 吃瓜不打烊. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Oct. 1, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So, here we go. 

Today we are joined via videoconference by Rachel Roubein of The Washington Post. 

Rachel Roubein: Hey, everybody. 

Rovner: Shefali Luthra of The 19th. 

Shefali Luthra: Hello. 

Rovner: And my 吃瓜不打烊 colleague Rachana Pradhan. 

Rachana Pradhan: Hi, Julie. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have my interview with Dr. Aaron Carroll of AcademyHealth about the undoing of the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, AHRQ, where most of the staff has been laid off or retired, and hundreds of grants have been canceled midcycle. But first, this week’s news. 

So we haven’t talked about the Make America Healthy Again movement in a while. It was a big week for MAHA here in Washington, D.C., with a gigantic summit at what used to be the Trump [International] Hotel, down the street from the White House. But it was hardly the event you’d expect if you still think of MAHA as moms who want their kids to have access to healthier food grown with fewer pesticides. Rather, this event featured representatives from health companies with business before the federal government, paying sponsorships of up to $300,000 each to sit on panels with officials from said government to talk about everything from the use of psychedelic drugs to fraud-fighting to wearables and AI [artificial intelligence]. The panel featuring Medicare and Medicaid chief Dr. [Mehmet] Oz was somewhat bizarrely moderated by comedian Russell Brand, who’s awaiting trial on sexual misconduct charges back in England. What was this event supposed to accomplish? 

Roubein: I think you kind of hit the nail on the head in terms of just thinking about the MAHA movement and sort of where it’s going next, because you had some people, more sort of MAHA activists, who were upset that it didn’t talk about some of the core issues of the MAHA base, like vaccines, like pesticides. There have been some influential MAHA activists who’ve been upset at the administration and disillusioned that it hasn’t done more to crack down on pesticide use, etc., have been upset at the Trump administration, and have been saying just weeks before the midterm elections that Republicans may lose some of these votes, and some so-called MAHA moms might sit out the elections. And I don’t think this summit did anything to persuade them to go and vote Republican in the midterms. 

Rovner: Yeah, it did seem, it seemed a great get-together if you wanted to sort of commune with the people who regulate your products, on a public stage. But both the president and Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have felt free of late to talk about vaccines, although obviously not at this summit. But it seems that the issue that had united most of MAHA that we were just talking about, pesticides and ultraprocessed food, have been back-burnered by the White House. Rachel, you wrote a . What happened to the food agenda? 

Roubein: Pretty notably, one of the big potential parts of the food agenda is this petition that was filed by David Kessler. He’s the former head of the FDA [Food and Drug Administration] under both Republican and Democratic administrations. And his petition, essentially 鈥� I talked to food safety experts about it 鈥� could have launched a process that could have forced the industry to reformulate some ultraprocessed foods eventually. So that could have been a big deal. The status of it: It was filed August 2025, and Kennedy earlier this year had done a response to it, where he wanted to have food companies produce any detailed safety studies showing that certain ingredients common in ultraprocessed foods are generally safe. And what I had heard from talking to people is that that potential push had been slow-walked at the White House. I obtained a March draft of the letter that Kennedy sent to the White House for review. Now, HHS pushed back on the assertion that it was slow-walked, but this isn’t the first time that administration officials had wanted to and planned to announce something. They had been working on a definition of ultraprocessed foods that they wanted to release back in August, and that was delayed at the last minute, them just putting out more information about this draft definition. 

Rovner: I feel like there’s this tension between the MAHA movement, which started as a grassroots movement to crack down on corporate power, and the White House is sort of wanting to deregulate everything. Those two things seem to be kind of at loggerheads, and it looks for now like the corporations are winning. We saw this with the pesticides earlier in the year, with glyphosate, that the agricultural community fought back and said, You can’t make us stop using it, because we need it to produce food. And now it seems that the food producers are saying: You have a deregulatory agenda. Why are you talking about regulating us more? Is that, am I reading this right that the corporate power is winning, at least so far? 

Pradhan: It’s still a Republican administration, right? Regardless of Secretary Kennedy’s sort of mandate and passions, he’s still working with and for people who do not like to use government to restrict or regulate or ban things. Even, if you think about, we’ve come a long way since this point. But when former first lady Michelle Obama tried to put healthier foods in schools, she was roundly criticized for embodying a nanny state and all these things. And now, the political winds have shifted. But I still think to go up against the party’s kind of traditional views on regulating business and corporate interests, it’s a swamp. What are you going to do? They’re not going to want to regulate a lot. And like you said, Julie, there are ample actions to date that show that there isn’t necessarily a desire to impose more regulations. It’s also an election year. They may not want to antagonize corporate interests when you’re trying to not see huge losses, especially in potentially the House and maybe even the Senate. 

Rovner: Yeah, they have enough people who are mad at them. They don’t want to add to it. 

Pradhan: Exactly. 

Rovner: Well, of course, with every political split comes a new political opportunity. In Michigan, Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed, who’s a prominent supporter of “Medicare for All,” is now trying to grab back some of those Democrats who gravitated to MAHA by unveiling something he’s calling the “Building a Healthier America” agenda, focusing on fewer pesticides, cleaner water, and healthier food. Rachel, you . Might it work? Might Democrats be able to sort of reclaim some of these people who drifted to the Republicans along with RFK Jr.? 

Roubein: I think it’s something that particularly some progressive Democrats are looking to, and they might look to do if they win back the House. In the Farm Bill, you saw Republicans and 鈥� some Republicans 鈥� and Democrats push back against giving pesticide makers immunity liability shields. But I think it remains an open question. And I think it also depends on the different groups, in terms of MAHA. Tony Lyons at MAHA Action has said that they want there to be an alliance with Republicans. But you also see this with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez trying to court some MAHA activists her way. So I think it’s an open question in terms of how this movement unfolds and whether there are any deviations towards the left. But it is a hard sell in some ways. Vaccines are a big part of a lot of people in the MAHA base. And when I asked El-Sayed about this, he said they’re, like, We’re going to agree to disagree on vaccines. 

Rovner: Yeah, he’s trained as a doctor and he does believe in vaccines. And he was the head of public health at the city of Detroit. He’s definitely not with the anti-vaccine types. But it’s important to remember that the original anti-vax movement was a combination of people from the far right and from the far left. So there have always been a lot of Democrats in the anti-vax movement, and this has been a group that’s been kind of up for grabs. And we will, I guess we’ll see how it will all shake out. 

Roubein: And some of the things on food Sen. Bernie Sanders has said for a long time, too. So there has always sort of been some of that intersection on certain issues. 

Rovner: Yeah. Well, originally RFK Jr. was running as a Democrat before he took up with the Trump team. All right. Moving on. Today is Oct. 1, the start of the fiscal year. Happy FY 2027, everyone. The Trump administration marked the day a little early, informing Congress last Friday that it was declining to spend more than $800 billion, in what’s called a pocket rescission. That’s when an administration declines to spend money appropriated by Congress so close to the end of the fiscal year that it basically can’t be spent at all and Congress doesn’t have time to disapprove it. The majority of this funding is from HHS, largely for programs to help noncitizens and for what the administration calls, quote, “overfunded and unaligned” HHS research programs. That includes many related to minority health. Congressional spending leaders, including Senate Appropriations Chair Susan Collins of Maine, complained that pocket rescissions are illegal under a law called the Impoundment Control Act, and the Government Accountability Office issued an opinion this week backing that claim up. But, as we know, this administration likes to dare courts to stop it from doing things that just about everybody else acknowledges is illegal. And I guess that’s where we are here? 

Luthra: No, I was just thinking, right? It’s October. Everything that happens now, we also think about in the context of an election, and I think a dynamic that we have talked about a lot is this effort by the administration to just sort of do what it would like to do with funding, even when many people might say that is not how the laws and separation of powers are supposed to work. And I think something really interesting for us to consider is whether those dynamics do, in fact, change in the new year. Given what Rachana mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that Democrats control both chambers of Congress, not just one. And [does] that possibility of conflict with another branch in Washington change what behavior we see from the White House? I think that’s a really interesting question and something that we should be thinking about as the election gets closer, and then again depending on what the results end up being. 

Rovner: Yeah, one of the really weedy issues here is who gets to sue the administration to say that, Hey, you’re not allowed to not spend money that we’ve appropriated. It was important that they came out and said that this was illegal, because the GAO, under the law, has standing to sue. But they don’t have a confirmed leader at this point, and Susan Collins was asked about this and said they may be a little bit wary to kind of get out in front of Congress. But I think it’s probably fair to say that if Democrats take back the House and Senate, that they would be more likely to want to either 鈥� I think that the Congress itself can sue the administration, can go to court and say, Hey, you can’t do this, which obviously the Republican Congress hasn’t wanted to do. But a Democratic Congress might. 

Pradhan: What 鈥� has GAO ever been known to sue? 

Rovner: That’s a good question. I can’t remember. We’ve had fights about rescissions before. 

Pradhan: Yeah. 

Rovner: But it’s 鈥� Russell Vought, the head of the White House Office of Management and Budget, says publicly that he thinks that the Impoundment Control Act is unconstitutional and therefore they don’t have to obey it. That’s clearly something for a court to determine. That’s clearly something for the Supreme Court to determine. We haven’t gotten there yet, but most of the time, I think, we’ve had lower courts that have warned the administration: Um, hey, there’s this law that says you can’t do that. You have to spend money the way Congress says you should spend money. The last time we had a pocket rescission, I looked it up, was last year when this administration did the same thing. That was the USAID [U.S. Agency for International Development] money. So before that, I’m not sure when. I may go back and have a look. Shefali, to your point, that was my next question anyway. It’s like, I would think that the one thing that is likely to change if the Democrats take Congress 鈥� obviously, we have two more years of the Trump administration 鈥� but I would think they would be a lot more zealous in guarding their spending power than this Congress has been. 

Luthra: One would imagine. It seems hard to abdicate the power that one might want. That’s how separation of powers, in theory, is supposed to work. 

Rovner: And it is kind of written into the Constitution. 

Pradhan: I do wonder, though, if they think that, if they wouldn’t get a good, friendly decision from a court 鈥� 

Rovner: The Supreme Court. Yeah. 

Pradhan: Yeah. That could be far more damaging in the long term, right? 

Rovner: Yes. There is the concern that the Supreme Court would agree with Russell Vought that the Impoundment Control Act 鈥� 

Pradhan: Right. 

Rovner: 鈥� is unconstitutional. That is a risk that they would run. 

Pradhan: Right. 

Rovner: Well, that will happen. We will see what happens with that. All right. So, obviously these latest cuts aren’t the only ones to HHS that have been made since [President Donald] Trump returned to office in 2025. We will talk more about what’s happened at the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality in this week’s interview, but I want to talk a little bit right now about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, whose workforce we now know is down by almost a third, according to . Quote: “The changes have hindered the C.D.C.’s ability to respond to outbreaks as measles spreads at home and Ebola abroad,” while, quote, “entire divisions have been shuttered, including teams that worked on smoking, sexual violence, child abuse and falls among older adults.” Separately, but not really separately, the CDC’s advisory committee on vaccine practices has ground to a halt after a judge struck down Kennedy’s replacement members as unqualified. Medical societies have stepped in with their own vaccine recommendations for this fall, but the official CDC guidance is already out of date because there’s no ACIP [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] to make recommendations. This is all going to come home to roost the next time we have a bad flu season, I imagine. 

Pradhan: Yeah, I think that the Times, the New York Times, story, what I thought was really, kind of what they led with, was that even though last year you had these widespread firings across HHS and different agencies, including the CDC 鈥� the CDC at that time we know lost about 1 in 5 workers 鈥� but really the true scale of the losses is much higher. It’s about 30% fewer employees. But the CDC has really had a rough go of it. I think it probably was the 鈥� it was the poster child for everything that went wrong during the pandemic, in Republicans’ view. And so they’ve been very keen on dismantling a lot of that agency, more so than the FDA and more so than the NIH [National Institutes of Health], for example, even though they’ve also seen a lot of staff reductions. But CDC, I think, has been so crippled for so long, both because of the staff reductions and just the awful morale at the agency because of everything that the current political leadership has done since. Yeah. 

Rovner: I would say, and the politicization of its leadership, things that were long run by career scientists in Democratic and Republican administrations that are now being run by political appointees, who are rather pointedly not scientists 鈥� 

Pradhan: Yeah. 

Rovner: 鈥� running this very scientifically driven agency. And of course we’ve had a fifth measles death in Pennsylvania now, that apparently the CDC is still not acknowledging the measles deaths in Pennsylvania. So there are still a lot of questions. The CDC does have, unlike several of the other HHS agencies, does have a Senate-confirmed leader. But so far, we haven’t heard very much from her. I guess we are all still sort of waiting to see what happens, but in the meantime, I can just imagine if we have a bad flu season or some other respiratory ailment that could have been prevented if CDC had been up to date with its vaccine recommendations, things could get rather loud and nasty later this winter. 

Roubein: Some of the vaccine recommendations, some of this is very much tied into the lawsuit, just like the high-level ACIP not putting more vaccine recommendations out. And this part has had somewhat of a snowball effect, like the Vaccines for Children Program, giving out free vaccines to uninsured, underinsured kids, that was held up for about a month. That is now going through, but they had to kind of work through: What are the recommendations going to be? And they ended up going with prior recommendations because there is not an ACIP to meet. So some of this has been tied up in legal limbo. And yeah, on the measles deaths, CDC is now acknowledging two out of the five that Pennsylvania has reported. 

Rovner: There we go. We’re finally hearing something. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We will be right back. 

Turning to reproductive health, the Hyde Amendment 鈥� that’s the annual appropriations rider that bars federal funding for abortion in most cases 鈥� turns 50 this week, which, as one abortion rights group pointed out, means that the ban itself has now been in effect longer than Roe v. Wade was in force. Shefali, what’s been the impact of the Hyde Amendment on the ground? What does it actually mean for people who are seeking reproductive care? 

Luthra: It’s a bit more complicated than I think people might initially realize. The Hyde Amendment prohibits the use of federal funds to pay for abortion 鈥� functionally, Medicaid. And so Medicaid programs are jointly funded by state governments and federal governments. If you are in a state where the state government does not want to put money into paying for Medicaid coverage of abortion, your abortion will not be covered, especially if you are low-income. Most people who get abortions are people who cannot afford another child. They are parents already. They are largely people who are low-income and rely on something like Medicaid. However, there are states, the Californias, etc., of the world, that have made a point of putting state funds into their Medicaid programs. So in some states, you can get Medicaid to cover your abortion. That’s really helpful. It makes this procedure much more affordable. It can cost hundreds of dollars, sometimes a lot more, depending on where you are in your pregnancy, to get an abortion. But, of course, the fact that this has existed for so long has absolutely made it harder for people, often those who are most financially vulnerable, to get abortions. What you often hear from those patients, though, when I speak to them, is, like, This is something I really can’t afford right now, but I will pay for it anyway because I really can’t afford another child. I think the Hyde Amendment is really striking in that it makes this thing much harder to get. But for a lot of people, it doesn’t necessarily stop them from getting it, because it is just so important to them. 

Rovner: It’s ironic that something that has to, literally Congress has to pass every year 鈥� it is a rider on a spending bill. Democrats have tried various ways to get rid of it, always failed. Even when we had a Congress that supported abortion rights, they could not get this out. It is just sort of part of the landscape now, isn’t it? 

Luthra: And part of it is, I think, demonstrative of one of the more effective anti-abortion lines a lot of Republicans have. Abortion public opinion is very complicated. And people support abortion rights in the abstract, but when you get into more specifics, their views become more complicated. And one framing a lot of the GOP has really found success with is saying, We don’t support taxpayer funding of abortion. And that really works because people will hear that and they say: Oh, well, that sounds very extreme. I support this for other people, but, like, my tax dollars, they can’t fund that. And that is the line that has been used to keep Medicaid from paying for abortions, to keep the Hyde Amendment intact, and to keep other federal programs as well from making this more available. And I think it’s perhaps more politically complicated than first blush at abortion polling data might suggest to undo something like this, 

Rovner: I absolutely agree. Well, still, anti-abortion forces remain intent on cutting off the main remaining source of access to abortion, the abortion pill mifepristone. This week, the attorneys general of Louisiana, Alabama, and Arkansas filed suit in federal district court 鈥� not at the Supreme Court, which the group’s press release says 鈥� to strike down the shield laws in New York, Massachusetts, and California. Those are the laws that enable doctors in those states to provide telehealth appointments to people in ban states seeking to terminate their pregnancies. Shefali, there’s already a lawsuit on mifepristone making its way through the courts, and it’s from Louisiana. How is this one different? 

Luthra: This one is different because it specifically goes after shield laws and it challenges their constitutionality. That is a different argument. It is more sweeping. It could be the thing that finally gets the Supreme Court to weigh in on this issue. Right? It’s a very, very big legal question, something that constitutional scholars have believed, since the enactment of shield laws will ultimately be settled by the Supreme Court. However, I think it’s really important for us to take this suit with context. As you mentioned, there are so many cases making their way through the courts right now around how people get abortions, the provision of mifepristone, shield laws, etc., etc. We don’t know which one will end up at the Supreme Court. We don’t know how courts will rule. This is just one more quiver in the bow that abortion opponents are trying to use to stop this telehealth model that has found quite a bit of success. We will see which one lands. It very well could be this one, but, at this point, we just don’t know. 

Rovner: Yeah, and I should point out that the other Louisiana case is about FDA and its approval of mifepristone to be prescribed via telehealth. So, and of course, we’re also waiting for the administration to do, to finish its FDA safety review, which we expect to see sometime after the election. Speaking of which, abortion is not quite the high-profile electoral issue this year that it was in 2024, but there’s still several abortion-related ballot initiatives to be voted on this year. Shefali, any that you’re watching particularly closely? Or any of the others of you? 

Luthra: I am personally very interested in the Idaho measure and the Missouri one. I spent a bit of time in both of those states learning about what’s happening there over the past month. I think it’s really fascinating. In Missouri, it’s a very strange case. Two years ago, voters amended their constitution and said, We will protect abortion rights. Abortion is now legal in Missouri, a state run by very, very anti-abortion lawmakers. Those same lawmakers were horrified by this finding, and so they have put forth a new ballot measure that would overturn the 2024 result, and it would amend the state constitution to ban abortion. And if that passes, Missouri’s constitution would be the only state constitution to explicitly ban abortion. That’s a really big deal. If this passes, it could set an example to other states where voters have said, We support abortion rights and lawmakers have felt very frustrated by that. Polling right now is a very even split. There is a lot of money. We will see what happens. But I think this is a really interesting case for us to be following. 

Rovner: And it’s super confusing because they just voted on this. 

Luthra: It’s so confusing. And it’s called Amendment 3. If you look at two years ago, the abortion rights measure was also called Amendment 3, and so you might be like: Well, I just voted on Amendment 3. I voted for it. I should vote for it again. And in fact, that would be the opposite. And I’ve spoken to people 鈥� 

Pradhan: That’s very confusing. That’s very confusing. How are people supposed to keep up with all this? I can barely keep up with it. 

Luthra: How are they supposed to keep up with all of it? That’s such a good question. 

Pradhan: It’s a lot. 

Luthra: But no, and I’ve spoken to people who work in politics in the area, and they had no idea this was even on the ballot. And I was like, That’s also really striking that abortion has faded from a lot of the political consciousness. But actually there’s this measure that could have really sweeping consequences and really inspire similar action in other states. And the Idaho measure, I think, also very interesting. That would actually not amend the constitution. It would just pass a law that would overturn Idaho’s very, very strict abortion ban, which has sparked all these headlines 鈥� women being airlifted to Utah for medical emergencies, doctors leaving, labor and delivery wards shutting down because the law is so strict there. It’s really an open question, but there is some polling that suggests that this could pass. They have gotten a lot of support from Democrats, but also independents, also Republicans. A lot of people in Idaho who were never really politically engaged very deeply are, because this abortion ban has been so sweeping, affected so many of them so personally. If it passes, the legislature could vote to overturn it, and we’ve seen that happen in states around the country. But I think we don’t know, A) if it will pass and, B) if it did how lawmakers might react. There’s a real chance 鈥� right? 鈥� that they are just so surprised that this happens that maybe you do reconsider the politics of instituting an abortion ban when voters rejected one. But absolutely worth following and seeing what happens in this case, for political reasons but also because a lot of people’s lives could be really, really fundamentally changed as a result of it. 

Roubein: Missouri sounds like such an interesting test case, because I remember back in 2022, after the Supreme Court decision, abortion rights groups were really grasping for a strategy, so they were throwing a bunch of different things at the wall, lawsuits, and then they tried the ballot measures, and it just seemed to work and take off steam. So that’s pretty interesting. 

Rovner: Yeah, and of course, as you pointed out, Missouri has some of the most strident anti-abortion lawmakers in Congress. Josh Hawley, the senator whose wife is one of the lawyers for the anti-abortion, for the main anti-abortion legal group. So Missouri is one of those states that’s got all of the poles represented, and we will have to see how that all comes out. 

Pradhan: Can I make one last addendum on the abortion thing, which is because I’m a Virginia resident? Actually, I was talking to my husband the other day. I said, “Oh, this is how you know that Democrats are in charge,” or we have a relatively new Democratic governor. So now there’s a proposed constitutional amendment on the ballot to amend the state constitution to codify abortion being legal until 28 weeks, so basically through the first two trimesters. Which, you know, Virginia is interesting. I’m biased because I live here, but it’s, of course, trended blue with many prior elections, like leading up to now. But parts of the state are very, very conservative. 

Rovner: Yeah, Virginia is still the South in a lot of ways. 

Pradhan: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it doesn’t take you long to figure that out once you leave the D.C. area, and there’s a lot of religious-based opposition to abortion. So I’m not sure how it’ll do, whether people will support it or not. 

Rovner: I’m curious whether 鈥� if we really are looking at a blue wave, and we certainly see a lot of Democrats in unlikely states who seem to have at least a chance of getting elected because of the frustration, mostly with the economy 鈥� whether that will bring along some of these other issues in a way that it might not have. Because, as we say all the time, midterms are about turnout, and it looks like the motivated voters this time are bluer than redder. But I guess that’s another thing that we will have to wait and see. 

All right, that is this week’s news. Now we’ll play my interview with Aaron Carroll of AcademyHealth, and then we will come back and do our extra credits.  

I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast Dr. Aaron Carroll, president and CEO of AcademyHealth, which supports the health services research community. Aaron Carroll, thank you so much for being here. 

Aaron Carroll: Always a pleasure. 

Rovner: So I’ve asked you here to talk about the Trump administration’s effective dismantling of the Agency for Healthcare Quality and Research, which even many of our very nerdy listeners might not have heard of. But first, tell us what health services research is and how it differs from the biomedical research that most people are more familiar with. 

Carroll: I think everybody really gets what we might call discovery research, which is about learning new things at a cellular, molecular, you know, body level 鈥� the creation of drugs, the creation of new procedures. You know, everybody sort of understands why we need to do that. But that’s only part of the problem. The bigger problem is how do we actually get that to where people are? So health services research focuses on: How do we improve the access, the quality, and the cost of a healthcare system? Another way I like to think about it is that everything that people hate about healthcare is what health services research focuses on. It costs too much? Yeah, that’s health services research. You can’t get in to see the clinician you want? Wait times are too long? That’s health services research. You feel like you’re not getting the quality that you should, or you’re worried that you know chronic diseases on 鈥�? That’s health services research. We spend very little time and very little money, unfortunately, on that type of research. But it’s just as important as discovery research, and I think that one of the reasons why we continue to be so dissatisfied with the healthcare system is because we’re not committed to studying and improving those things in the same way we are discovery. 

Rovner: So how does AHRQ facilitate that, or how has AHRQ facilitated that? 

Carroll: Sure. So, I mean, some of it is by creating and maintaining some of the big databases that people use to study the healthcare system, things like MEPS or other related databases. 

Rovner: MEPS is the Medical Expenditures 鈥� 

Carroll: Medical Expenditure Panel Survey. Yes, but I think the bigger way is that they give out independent investigator grants the same way that the NIH does. It just focuses more on health services research, and sometimes they have, you know, different areas that they choose to focus on, depending on the administration, because every administration should get to set priorities or, you know, decide what they think are most important. But they usually give out lots of grants, and I’ve had some over my career, that allow you to do all kinds of research to try to examine how you might improve the way that people receive care or pay for care or get care. 

Rovner: And some of that research has actually created improvements in the healthcare system, is that fair to say?  

Carroll: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the reason that, like, we landed on, say, $35 for insulin is because of health services research. It’s because of research that was done that found that that was sort of the inflection point. That when out-of-pocket costs got above that amount, people stopped taking their insulin as they should. And I understand the need for some copays 鈥� and obviously, we have a healthcare system. 鈥� But it’s, like, finding that kind of stuff out is health services research. And, you know, even some of the grants that were canceled this year would make sense to any, everyday Americans. Like, how do we improve the way that hospitals use antibiotics so we get less resistance, or how do we improve care using telehealth so that kids can get better asthma care or autism diagnoses? These are not discoveries in the sense of new medications, but they are things that we need to learn how to do to make the healthcare system work for everyone. 

Rovner: So I actually covered the creation of not just AHRQ, but of its predecessor agency, the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research, way back in 1989, when I was a baby healthcare reporter. It was not just a bipartisan agency. Its creation was spearheaded by Republicans who wanted to know, basically, which medical interventions worked and whether the U.S. was getting its money’s worth on medical procedures. The reinvention of the agency 10 years later was led by Sen. Bill Frist, a Republican former transplant surgeon who later served as the Senate’s majority leader. So, how did the Trump administration come to view this agency as so “woke” that it basically needed to be disassembled? 

Carroll: I don’t know. And again, if you don’t like the research priorities, it is perfectly reasonable for an administration to say, Let’s change them. And if they decided they wanted to focus on cost, OK. If they decided they wanted to focus on access, OK. There’s so many different ways to do this, but what they’ve done instead is apparently cancel a ton of grants that were already ongoing 鈥� and I’d be happy to talk about more specifics about that 鈥� but also they just are not spending the money. In fiscal year 2025, there was a significant amount of money that wasn’t spent. Many believe that’s an illegal impoundment, and there’s a case working its way through the courts right now, led by the Society for General Internal Medicine and Public Citizen, and they actually folded in some of the cancellation grants. But in fiscal year 2026, almost no money has been given out for new grants. Today, as we’re taping this, it is the last day of the fiscal year. I have no idea how possibly they’re going to spend the $345 million that was appropriated in 2026. A lot of that is not going to go out the door. In answer to that, they have said that 97% is being on track to be spent. I don’t know how that’s possible. And it’s very, very likely, again, we’re going to see a ton of money unspent, and I imagine lawsuits and more yelling will follow. 

Rovner: So, Congress appropriated this money. The president signed the appropriations bill. What can Congress do, and why isn’t Congress doing something? 

Carroll: So I ask those same questions every day. I don’t understand how Congress is not out of its mind. I mean, this is not something, again, from the “woke” Biden administration. This is this Congress, this House, this Senate passed a budget in a bipartisan manner, that was then signed by the president of the United States 鈥� this president 鈥� into law. The money’s been appropriated. 鈥� In fact, there was specific language in the budget that required HHS to staff up to make sure that they could spend this money. They have not staffed up. They have not spent the money. I don’t know how Congress is not losing their minds. It is an absolute ignoring the law. It is absolutely ignoring Congress’ will. I know there’s a GAO investigation. I know questions have been asked, and I don’t think answers have been given. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don’t know, again, why Congress isn’t screaming and yelling and taking action. Now, what action should they take? Hearings, oversight, make sure that all of this happens. Haul people in to session and find out why are they not following the law, and force the executive branch, as the legislative branch should do, as an equal part of our government, to follow the law. 

Rovner: And it’s not just the grants. I mean, most of the staff has now been basically terminated. 

Carroll: Yeah. Well, that’s what I mean. And there are now minimum staffing requirements in the law, and those are not being followed. I mean, depending upon whose estimates you believe, somewhere between 75% and 90% of AHRQ staff have either been let go or have left the organization. We can’t get exact numbers because they won’t release them. But there aren’t enough people even to process or put the money out the door. Even if they decided today we’ve got to get all the money, it’s not possible. There just aren’t people there to fill out the forms, check the budgets, do all the due diligence, administer the grants, oversee it. There’s no one there, and it’s an absolute abdication of their responsibility to enact the budget and the law as Congress has appropriated and put forth. 

Rovner: Last question: What would it mean 鈥� I mean, what would the loss, basically, of what AHRQ has been doing for these last 26 years mean 鈥� to the healthcare system and how it runs? 

Carroll: I mean, we spend $40-some billion a year on the NIH 鈥� I think about $47 billion. AHRQ, again, is $345 million. So we have been massively underspending on sort of what I would call “delivery” research on how the healthcare system works. And it’s one of the reasons why Americans are getting angrier and angrier every year because they’re, like, Why won’t things get better? Well, we’re not funding it enough. We’re not doing enough. And then, what little we were doing, they canceled in July and refused to spend now. So, what’ll happen? We will remain just as angry, if not angrier, about how much we’re paying for healthcare. We will remain just as angry, if not angrier, about how we can’t get what we need, and we’ll remain just as angry, if not angrier, about the fact that we can spend all this money that we do, $5 trillion-plus, and still feel like we’re not getting the quality, and continue to complain about how unhealthy we all are. AHRQ is the solution to a lot of these problems, and, for some reason, we just won’t use it. 

Rovner: Aaron Carroll, we will stay on top of this. We will revisit it. I promise. 

Carroll: I’m glad to hear that. 

Rovner: Thank you. 

Carroll: Thank you. 

Rovner: OK, we’re back. Now it’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Rachel, why don’t you go first this week? 

Roubein: My extra credit is headlined “” It was in Stat by Elaine Chen. I thought it was a really fascinating story because we’ve all seen the cultural shift toward GLP-1s, and we’ve all heard the drugs praised as a way to address obesity as a medical issue. But Elaine reports that the drugs are now being increasingly marketed as a way to look and feel better. I thought there were some notable examples. The story explored how Novo Nordisk, which is one of the drugs’ makers, has particularly leaned into the shift. For instance, the company had advertisements this summer with slogans that include “live lighter” and “a summer glow-up.” And instead of labeling the drug as a drug for weight management, it sometimes is referring to it as a weight loss drug. And Elaine talked to some doctors and patient advocates that think the drug’s being talked about more as a retail product, run against the industry’s sort of initial goals of trying to convince the greater public that obesity is a disease and that the drug should be covered by insurance. For Novo Nordisk’s part, a spokeswoman told Elaine that how people expect to access and experience care has changed in recent years, and the company recognizes that healthcare needs to become more responsive, relevant, and easier to fit into everyday life. 

Rovner: I would just note, and it’s a very good story, that if the drugmakers lowered the price of the drugs, it would be easier to get it covered by insurance. But that’s just an aside. Shefali. 

Luthra: My story is from The Atlantic by Caitlin Dickerson. The headline is “.” It’s a great story. It is about when parents are deported without their children, what happens to those children? This is the kind of reporting that is really hard to do because you have to spend time with children who have lost their parents. But I think it’s really important, especially as we see this uptick in detaining and deporting, in particular, people with children. I’ve spoken to a lot of mothers who have been deported when they had children here, and the consequences will last probably people’s whole lives. There are health consequences, especially when you have young children. There is PTSD, and I think Caitlin Dickerson has done some of the best reporting on immigration in the past decade, maybe longer. And this is absolutely an essential addition to that canon. 

Rovner: It is indeed. Rachana. 

Pradhan: My story is a trifecta from my colleagues Phil Galewitz, Andrew Jones, and Claudia Boyd-Barrett, who wrote a story about, as of today, hundreds of thousands likely of immigrants who are lawfully present in the United States but who have low incomes are now no longer eligible for Medicaid. This is part of President Trump’s signature One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which will enact greater coverage reductions next year, starting in 2027. But this group of people is now no longer eligible for Medicaid. It includes refugees, some people who have been granted asylum, and also, you know, victims of domestic violence and/or human trafficking. So the story gets into how we have our beloved Congressional Budget Office here in Washington that sort of estimates the impacts of tons of legislation. And they estimated previously that about 100,000 immigrants would be uninsured by 2034 because of this provision. But based on figures that my three colleagues got from state governments or state Medicaid agencies, the figure is likely to be higher of the numbers of immigrants with legal status who are going to now not be able to receive Medicaid. So yeah. So it’s a great read, and I know Julie will put the link in the podcast and in the comments. 

Rovner: I will indeed. Yes, there’s the continuing, you know, “immigration is a health issue, too” theme that we have this week. All right, my extra credit is actually an update to an extra credit from last month. Like last month’s story, it’s from The New York Times, and it’s called “,” by Madaleine Rubin. And it seems that my alma mater 鈥� also, full disclosure, the alma mater of my editor and several of our panelists 鈥� has rethought the idea of letting incoming freshmen complete their first semester without letter grades to ease them into college life. According to a statement from interim university president Domenico Grasso, there was concern that students would be, quote, “unfairly portrayed as coddled or unprepared for the demands of a rigorous Michigan education.” Yeah, I would add that a lot of the backlash came from my fellow alums, and that even though I attended Michigan well back in the 20th century, even in the olden days, we had the option to take classes pass/fail if we wanted to. Although I would note that under the original proposal here, the students wouldn’t have failed, but they would either have gotten a pass or a “no credit.” Good job rethinking this, guys, and Go Blue. 

OK, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts 鈥� as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X , or on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging about these days? Shefali. 

Luthra: I guess I’m on Bluesky , but you can also email me. 

Rovner: There you go. Rachana. 

Pradhan: @rachanadpradhan, both on and on , and you can always email me at RachanaP@kff.org. 

Rovner: Rachel. 

Roubein: Yes. X: ; Bluesky: ; and Signal is always good too: RachelRoubein.28. 

Rovner: Great. Thank you all. We will be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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