Medicare Archives - 吃瓜不打烊 /topics/medicare/ 吃瓜不打烊 produces in-depth journalism on health issues and is a core operating program of KFF. Fri, 16 Oct 2026 14:02:51 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.11 /wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2023/04/kffhealthnews-icon.png?w=32 Medicare Archives - 吃瓜不打烊 /topics/medicare/ 32 32 257378068 Aging Life Care Managers Can Be a 鈥楪odsend鈥� for Families /aging/new-old-age-aging-life-care-managers-geriatric-help/ Wed, 14 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2293690 Kristin Martinelli began her workday at 7:30 a.m. on a recent Monday, completing an online Medicaid recertification form for a client in a nursing home in Austin, Texas.

Next, she drove to meet an 85-year-old and her daughter, who had come in from out of town. The older woman had “pretty advanced dementia” and was scheduled to move into the secure memory care unit of a senior living facility that day, said Martinelli, who works as an aging life care manager with Mir Care Consultants in Central Texas. The three of them had a 9 a.m. meeting with the primary care doctor who would complete the paperwork for the move.

At the meeting, Martinelli explained the situation, and the doctor said he’d fill in the patient’s forms that afternoon. But later in the day, she got a call from a colleague saying that the doctor wouldn’t be able to complete the forms that day after all. That created a scramble because the woman wasn’t safe alone in her house. Martinelli ended up calling a home care agency she trusted. “I begged them to provide me with a caregiver in the next four hours,” she said.

If a combination of appointments, bureaucracy, vigilance, and worry about a vulnerable older person 鈥� often interspersed with medical emergencies 鈥� sounds familiar, it might help to know about a service its providers ruefully call the best-kept secret in eldercare.

Independent certified professionals like Martinelli used to be known as geriatric care managers. That’s what I called the people who make the 125-mile move from his apartment to a continuing care community near me, and later helped my disabled sister transition from her home to an assisted living facility.

I also used words like “godsend” and “indispensable.” After the moves, the care managers kept tabs on both my father and sister monthly and eased my fears that something urgent might strike the moment I left on a vacation or a work trip.

About a decade ago, these experts rebranded themselves as aging life care managers. It usually takes a couple of years to become one. Most enter the profession as nurses or social workers; some are physical or occupational therapists or gerontologists. They must attain a required combination of before they can take the certification exam.

The Aging Life Care Association, the nonprofit that represents these professionals, was founded in the 1980s and has grown to more than 2,000 members, but care managers still have a persistent public awareness problem.

“When we talk to someone, they say, 鈥業 wish I could have called you six months ago, but I didn’t know you existed,’” said Susy Elder Murphy, who owns Aging Well Eldercare, a large practice serving Washington, D.C., and its Maryland suburbs.

The caller is typically an adult child, the Aging Life Care Association has reported. Martinelli described a common scenario: “Mom is in the hospital, or the children went to visit and hadn’t realized she was so sick. They’re in a crisis.”

Enter the aging life care manager. What distinguishes her (it is usually a woman) from people with confusingly similar names 鈥� senior care advisers, patient advocates, care navigators 鈥� is her independence.

Aging life care managers work for the client and the family paying them, not for hospitals or insurance companies. Moreover, the association’s specifically prohibits “accepting or giving referral fees, fee splitting, kickbacks or other similar arrangements in exchange for client referrals.”

Contrast that with companies that promise free advice on senior living, like A Place for Mom. Care facilities pay A Place for Mom fees for steering new residents their way, as the organization . Advisers for companies that receive fees may be unlikely to recommend places that don’t pay, or to recommend home care, unless the company also contracts with local agencies.

“They’re really marketers, salespeople,” Julie Wagner, chief executive of the Aging Life Care Association, said about the referral companies. Some companies are about these financial incentives.

“If you want to buy a car and you go to the Ford dealer, they will not say, 鈥業 really see you in a Subaru,’” Murphy said. “You should be talking to someone who’s objective, neutral, and experienced.”

Care managers don’t come cheap. Wagner said association members’ hourly rates range from $150 to $350, with big geographic variations. In Texas, Mir’s standard rate is $185 an hour, billed in 15-minute increments. In Washington, Murphy’s practice charges $210 an hour. Sometimes families share the cost, as my sister and I did. And in some cities, social service agencies provide these specialists on a sliding scale.

Aging life care managers serve as coordinators, not hands-on caregivers, and the range of services they provide is quite broad.

They can, for example: Arrange and oversee a move to or within a senior living facility. Deal with insurers, including Medicare and Medicaid. Drive a client to the dentist. Recommend not only local residential communities and home care agencies but elder law lawyers, medical specialists, therapists, , and hospice organizations. Visit weekly or monthly to see that everything is going smoothly. Alert family members if it isn’t.

“A part of our job is mediating between family members, acting as a sounding board,” Martinelli said.

In fact, care managers like Murphy find their clients often seem more willing to listen to them than to their adult children 鈥� even if the advice is the same. “Your mom didn’t change our diapers or teach us to talk,” she said. “It’s a different relationship.”

In a of clients and families commissioned by the Aging Life Care Association, “the responses were overwhelmingly positive,” said Jullie Gray, a co-author of the study who teaches at the University of Washington School of Social Work.

The nearly 200 respondents did not constitute a representative national sample, Gray said. But 93% said the benefits of hiring an aging life care manager outweighed the costs, and 99% said they would recommend such a manager to someone else. The survey’s findings were presented at the 2025 meeting of the Gerontological Society of America.

Jeffrey Bernstein, an engineer in Middleton, Massachusetts, has for years relied on Aging Well Eldercare for help with his parents, two older siblings, and an aunt, all in Maryland. Like many people who eventually learn about care managers, “I had no idea such a person existed,” he said, until his wife read about them in a magazine.

Bernstein, 65, was unable to relocate to care for his family directly. But with care managers, “when something came up, they were there, they stepped up,” he said. “More importantly, they knew what to do when I wouldn’t have. It was tremendously helpful for my peace of mind.”

The same was true with Martinelli’s 85-year-old client in Austin. She spent the night with temporary caregivers and moved into her new home in the memory care unit that Tuesday, after her doctor finally produced the necessary documentation. “She went in just before noon,” Martinelli reported. “She had lunch.”

How was the new resident adjusting? “It’s been OK,” Martinelli said, sounding relieved. “So far, so good.”

The New Old Age is produced through a partnership with .

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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AI, Tech Leaders Are Lobbying Trump Health Officials in a Government-Run Chat Room /health-industry/ai-tech-lobbying-medicare-medical-records-apps-trump-cms-slack-fda/ Fri, 09 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2294734 A cadre of elite techies, financiers, and high-level Trump administration officials have spent a year quietly charting an extraordinary and rapid campaign to persuade Americans to use apps and other artificial intelligence-powered tools to manage their healthcare and medical records.

As that campaign has unfolded, administration officials have granted tech companies an unusual opportunity to nudge the nation’s health department toward a loosely regulated future for AI health apps in which the government reimburses them for services as it does medical professionals.

In February, federal health officials invited those businesses — including tech giants Microsoft, Anthropic, OpenAI, Apple, and Google — to a listening session on conversational AI products for patients, such as chatbots. Representatives from at least 35 industry organizations attended the meeting held by the Food and Drug Administration, which is responsible for regulating health apps as medical devices. Companies were prompted in advance to explain their AI products and how they access patients’ sensitive medical information.

But the meeting did not appear on the FDA’s public calendar or regulatory notices, nor was the public invited. Rather, the invitation for a select group to help shape federal policy governing AI in healthcare was extended in a chat room on the messaging service Slack.

“This is a great opportunity to support HHS’ goals and share your state-of-the-art understanding of safe Conversational AI development and monitoring to help FDA shape future guidance,” CMS senior policy adviser Morgan Taylor wrote in the Slack workspace.

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has not formally announced the chat room through federal regulatory channels, though CMS officials have talked about it at industry conferences. Legal experts said the chat room resembles a federal advisory panel, which would be required to operate in public view.

吃瓜不打烊 reviewed thousands of Slack messages, meeting transcripts, and video recordings that reveal how the Trump administration has granted the industry a direct line to top government officials — including former head of the Department of Government Efficiency .

The conversation took place behind the scenes as federal health officials publicly worked to integrate AI and other technology into nearly every aspect of healthcare, a plan they’ve branded the “.”

“We wanted to give industry a chance to play in the sandbox of government-supported healthcare,” CMS Administrator Mehmet Oz at the public launch of an initiative that allows health apps to bill Medicare for AI services such as wearable device tracking. Last week, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. delivered an enthusiastic endorsement of AI in healthcare, claiming it is “much better informed than any doctor in the country.”

Meanwhile, HHS staff even promised that a recently launched would serve as a lucrative pipeline for those businesses to get new users. The library’s webpage currently promotes only two dozen commercial apps to millions of American seniors and those with disabilities.

, Americans will get easier access to their medical records so apps can swiftly provide health or wellness advice. In practice, however, so will the tech companies.

Doctors, meanwhile, are increasingly worried about how patients use and share their medical records with the nascent technology.

“Some of these tools just aren’t ready for primetime,” said John Whyte, CEO of the American Medical Association. “We don’t have enough data about them. We don’t understand how they work, how they’re using the information. There’s no liability if these tools get things wrong.”

CMS officials declined to answer several questions about the Slack workspace, including about its legality.

“CMS is focused on giving Medicare beneficiaries greater access to their health information and useful digital tools while promoting an open, interoperable healthcare system,” Gleason, now chief product officer for the newly created Office of Health Technology and Products at CMS, wrote in an emailed statement. “The Health Technology Ecosystem is an open, voluntary technical collaboration. CMS will continue working with patients, providers, payers, technology organizations, and other stakeholders to make health information more accessible and useful to the Americans it serves.”

The FDA did not respond to a request for comment.

The Conversation Begins

The behind-the-scenes effort to funnel more Americans to AI-powered health apps began in August 2025 in the Slack workspace.

“Welcome all!” Gleason wrote. “Please be sure to read the Code of Conduct and see the Channel list as well to help you find channels that are relevant to you.”

Gleason is best known as the acting administrator of Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency, as it to millions of Americans’ sensitive personal and financial data, including at the Social Security Administration.

As her work with DOGE wound down last year, Gleason welcomed a variety of tech leaders, investors, and entrepreneurs to the chat room.

The Slack workspace’s participants include representatives from major digital wellness companies like Oura Health, AI companies like Palantir, and investment outfits like 8VC, associated with Kennedy’s . While the Slack’s member count has ballooned to 1,700 over the past year, only a handful of patient advocates, doctors, and hospital representatives are in it.

The code of conduct Gleason shared on Slack in August 2025 documented that CMS had quietly established a technology working group.

A screenshot of text that says: “Code of Conduct / Purpose / The Technology Working Group (TWG) is a collaborative space for participants to share knowledge, explore technical solutions, and work together to improve technology in support of better health care for Medicare beneficiaries. This forum is not for providing CMS policy or rulemaking guidance. It is not a forum for obtaining advice or recommendations for CMS or HHS on issues or policies within their scope. / 1. FACA Disclaimer / • This group does not meet the definition of an "advisory committee" under 5 U.S.C. § 1001(2) or 41 C.F.R. § 102-3.25. / • It has not been established, nor will it be utilized, to obtain advice or recommendations for HHS, CMS, or any HHS/CMS officials. / • The purpose of this group is limited to technical collaboration, problem-solving, and information sharing among participants. / • If you have policy or rulemaking ideas, please direct them through official CMS channels.”
A screenshot of text that says: “6. Ethics & Endorsements / • Federal employees participating in this group are prohibited from endorsing any product, service, or enterprise, except as allowed under 5 C.F.R. § 2635.702(c). / • Participation by CMS or HHS employees does not constitute endorsement of any organization, vendor, or product.”
Documents have been reproduced from the CMS Health Tech Ecosystem Slack and highlighted by 吃瓜不打烊.

The document also set ground rules for the Slack workspace, noting that the group does not constitute an “advisory committee,” nor would it be used “to obtain advice or recommendations for HHS, CMS, or any HHS/CMS officials.” The code also advises that federal employees “are prohibited from endorsing any product, service, or enterprise.”

Joseph Daval, a former FDA lawyer who is now a research specialist at Harvard Medical School, reviewed messages from the Slack workspace at the request of 吃瓜不打烊. He said the chat room in some ways resembles a federal advisory committee — an independent panel that can be formally stood up by an agency head, Congress, or the president to ensure agencies act in the best interest of the public rather than industry.

The law on advisory committees “was passed in part out of a concern about interest group capture, about anticompetitive capture of agency policymaking, about corruption,” he said.

Daval said the chat group looks like a committee, with members interacting with one another and building consensus on preferred courses of action.

If it were a formal advisory committee, though, Daval said, it would be subject to certain “membership requirements having to do with independence and fair balance.”

A ‘Sales Engine’

Over a series of video calls, CMS officials promised tech leaders participating in the Slack workspace that the agency would promote their health apps.

Jacob Shiff, the chief AI and technology officer at CMS’ Innovation Center, told industry representatives in a Zoom meeting in February that he hoped the agency’s work would be a “sales engine” for the health apps.

“We’re going to have a directory of all the organizations,” Shiff said in a video recording reviewed by 吃瓜不打烊. “The people on this call who hopefully will have amazing solutions that work will be the winners, and you have every incentive to obviously drive down your costs so you can be extremely profitable and scale. So hopefully we’re selling — or enabling you guys to thrive.”

A recording of the call had been publicly available through a Google Drive link but was made private the day after 吃瓜不打烊 asked about comments made during the meeting.

CMS did not respond to queries about how the agency has decided which AI-powered health apps appear in the Medicare App Library or why federal employees have promised to promote the products.

Days before publicly launching the Medicare App Library, CMS officials promised AI tech leaders during an informal meeting that the new webpage would become an important distribution channel for health apps because Medicare enrollees would place trust in products listed on the CMS website.

“If medicare.gov is promoting it, for lack of a better word, then yeah, it would be an app that I would trust and explore,” CMS’ Taylor said during the April 7 meeting, channeling enrollees, according to a transcript of the call.

The Medicare App Library’s webpage encourages older and disabled Americans to manage health conditions such as obesity, cancer, or diabetes using two dozen AI-driven apps developed by some of the world’s largest corporations, including Microsoft and Google. Many of the apps promise in their product descriptions to give insight, perform analyses, or develop plans that will help patients lose weight or manage diabetes.

CMS officials have suggested to tech representatives during at least two meetings this year that those apps will be prioritized for a new agency program that reimburses companies for AI chatbot advice or wearable device tracking, according to video recordings.

CMS has not publicly divulged all the criteria it uses to decide which apps are listed in its library, but the webpage promotes apps still in their infancy.

Among them is Slothwise, a health app launched this year from a San Francisco apartment by a young, biotech entrepreneur and triple citizen of Russia, Israel, and the U.S. says it “knows your whole health” by analyzing medical records and tracking health data, offering users a free option with limited functionality or its full features for $9.99 a month. It has been reviewed on the Apple and Google app stores only a handful of times.

“I trusted slothwise with my health info because it was endorsed by medicare,” one reviewer wrote in a in August. “Connecting info was smooth and I learned a lot about my health.”

In a statement, Slothwise CEO Sofia Sigal-Passeck did not answer questions about the size and medical expertise of her current team, nor about the availability of a doctor to consult with patients who use the app. The app, she said, is only “informational” at this time.

“I’ve spent years building at the intersection of AI and complex biological data,” Sigal-Passeck wrote in an email. “A small team is not the same thing as an inexperienced team. Slothwise is built by physicians, PhD researchers and engineers.”

‘No Regulation, No Rulemaking’

What’s often less clear — and buried deep in lengthy privacy policies — is that these apps are tapping into the intimate details of patients’ medical records to fuel their AI-driven analyses.

Tech vendors have to treat these apps, once they are vetted and authorized by a third-party organization, like a patient requesting records. That position gives apps sweeping access to pull sensitive health data from the national network through which providers electronically exchange medical records, called the , or TEFCA.

A small but influential group of those tech company executives directly made the case to federal health officials during a in May, arguing that when health apps request medical records they should be treated as if they are standing “in the shoes” of a patient.

On Slack, tech vendors have lobbied for a “frictionless pathway” for verified users, after they’ve consented once, that allows the app to gain limitless access to patients’ medical records from the TEFCA network.

Ryan Howells, a healthcare management consultant who lobbies for a Washington, D.C.-based digital health tech organization called the CARIN Alliance, has spearheaded an effort for patients — vis-à-vis apps — to more easily access medical records. He has regularly noted in Slack that health apps accessing TEFCA must be vetted by a third-party organization — one of which he sits on the board of — and agree to a code of conduct, developed by the alliance he lobbies for.

“What more can you do to have trust in these apps?” he wrote in a March Slack message, responding to concerns about how much patient consent is needed for apps to access medical records on the network.

Kristen Valdes, the CEO of b.well, a company that also connects apps to the TEFCA network, made a similar argument.

“My opinion is that we need to stop protecting patients from themselves,” she wrote in the same message thread. “Full stop.”

Howells did not respond to an emailed list of questions from 吃瓜不打烊. In an interview, Valdes told 吃瓜不打烊 that her comment reflected her frustration at the “paternalism” of the healthcare system, which she said has historically made it difficult for patients to access their records. Although, she said, “there are going to be good and bad apps.”

Other tech leaders worried in Slack about the approach.

One startup founder cautioned the group to think about the pitfalls of giving health apps broad leeway to pull medical records.

“We might all be good, honest actors here but security & privacy systems have to be designed around the presence of malicious actors – especially if we want this system to scale up to thousands of apps,” wrote Jason Kulatunga, who runs Fasten Health, a medical records management platform.

Gleason, the CMS official, has publicly championed the vision shared by Howells and Valdes. In her speeches, she frequently urges doctors to accept patient medical records directly from apps and calls on them to “,” also the title of a 2025 co-authored by Howells that urges doctors’ offices to abandon paper records.

Last month, Gleason spoke to a crowd gathered at a swanky hotel in Washington for an event hosted by the MAHA Institute, a think tank that supports Secretary Kennedy’s agenda. She laid out her work with tech companies over the past year as she discussed the Trump administration’s efforts to make medical records more digitally accessible.

As she told it, more Americans can now download an app and access their medical records.

“Once you’ve verified your identity you can just click a simple button and say, I’d like my medical records into whatever app I choose,” Gleason said.

She continued: “That was all done just — no regulation, no rulemaking — just by challenging industry to work together.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Midterm Madness /podcast/what-the-health-466-midterms-poll-affordability-trump-refund-checks-october-8-2026/ Thu, 08 Oct 2026 19:05:00 +0000 /?p=2294692&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2294692 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 吃瓜不打烊 Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 吃瓜不打烊’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

The midterm elections are less than a month away, and a new poll from KFF shows voters are very concerned about rising health costs and trust Democrats more than Republicans to address the issue. In an apparent attempt to close the gap, President Donald Trump is sending checks, some dubbed as “refunds,” to some Medicare and Affordable Care Act enrollees, but those checks are for far less than most patients’ costs have risen in 2026.

Meanwhile, Republicans had planned for the healthcare cuts included in their signature 2025 budget law to take effect after the midterms. But many states and healthcare providers have jumped the gun, cutting funding and services now in anticipation of fewer federal funds in 2027.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 吃瓜不打烊, Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Sun.

Panelists

Anna Edney photo
Anna Edney Bloomberg News
Alice Miranda Ollstein photo
Alice Miranda Ollstein Politico
Paige Winfield Cunningham photo
Paige Winfield Cunningham The Washington Sun

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Healthcare affordability is a top issue for voters heading into the midterms, a political reality prompting Trump to talk up his deals with drug companies and promise checks to Americans affected by government healthcare policies. Meanwhile, a new poll shows “Medicare for All” is at its highest popularity in at least a decade, suggesting some Americans are so squeezed by medical bills that they’re willing to support a major healthcare overhaul.
  • While Republican lawmakers wrote the One Big Beautiful Bill Act so that most changes to the Medicaid program would take effect after the midterms, people are starting to feel the bite. Clinics, hospitals, and state governments are already making cuts in anticipation of the drop in federal funding. Plus, Nebraska’s early implementation of the law’s Medicaid work requirement is showing that most of those losing coverage are being dropped for procedural reasons.
  • In infectious disease news, the measles outbreak in Pennsylvania has topped 1,000 cases. Those who contract the disease are likely to experience long-term effects, because it can have serious repercussions for the body’s immune system. And the death of a lab worker in Siberia from an unknown pneumonia has raised plague concerns and is making headlines as Russia shares little with the international community about the case.
  • Plus, the Trump administration disclosed in court filings this week that the findings of its safety study of the abortion pill mifepristone will be released next year. And the practice of lethal injection is under scrutiny after the botched execution of a Tennessee woman. Many pharmaceutical companies refuse to even supply the drugs needed for lethal injections to correctional facilities, raising questions about the source and handling of the drugs used.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month,” about a patient who got a bill from a hospital emergency department though she never got out of the waiting room. If you have a medical bill that’s baffling, outrageous, or inscrutable, you can submit it to us here.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The Atlantic’s “,” by Sarah Zhang.

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Politico’s “,” by Carmen Paun.

Paige Winfield Cunningham: The New York Times’ “,” by Reed Abelson and Teddy Rosenbluth.

Anna Edney: ProPublica’s “,” by Annie Waldman.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

click to open the transcript Transcript: Transcript: Midterm Madness

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 吃瓜不打烊 and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 吃瓜不打烊. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Oct. 8, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go. Today we are joined via video conference by Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico. 

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Hello. 

Rovner: Anna Edney of Bloomberg News. 

Anna Edney: Hi, everybody. 

Rovner: And we welcome back to the podcast Paige Winfield Cunningham, now of the brand-new Washington Sun. 

Paige Winfield Cunningham: Hi, Julie. It’s great to be back. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have my interview with Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month,” about a patient who got a bill from a hospital emergency room, although she never actually received any treatment there. But first, this week’s news. 

So Election Day is less than a month away, and a finds that healthcare is voters’ top cost concern going into the midterms, and cost concerns are the top voting issue. When asked about their biggest financial concern, health costs topped things like food, utilities, and rent, and tied with the cost of gas. My big boss, Drew Altman, , theorizes that’s not just because individual health costs have spiked of late, but because health costs are so unpredictable and potentially catastrophic. So, is it fair to call these midterms a healthcare election? 

Winfield Cunningham: When is it not a healthcare election? 

Rovner: That may be. 

Winfield Cunningham: I don’t know. I guess I feel it’s not new that Democrats have the advantage on healthcare. Like, they pretty much always have the advantage on healthcare in polls. But what’s sort of interesting to me is that this administration has really tried to score some political wins here and kind of flip the script. I don’t think they’re necessarily being successful, but President [Donald] Trump is going about this in a very President Trump kind of way, right? They passed the [One] Big Beautiful Bill [Act], which was unpopular, and they’re not talking about that at all. But instead, you see Trump trying to, you know, send ACA [Affordable Care Act] checks to ACA customers and checks to Medicare customers. 

Rovner: Yes, we’ll get to that in a second, yes. 

Winfield Cunningham: And then, you know, they’re talking about their deals with drug companies. We know President Trump loves to cut deals. I think in his own way they’re trying to be, like, Hey, we’re good at healthcare, and, like, we are worried about costs, etc. And we’re doing something. But, of course, much of this is a one-time kind of fix, and not even a fix. That’s probably being too generous. But a one-time check that people are getting. So yeah, I don’t think Republicans are being successful in 鈥� presenting themselves as the party people can trust on healthcare per se. 

Ollstein: To Paige’s point, I think the sudden rush to mail out checks to a bunch of people who’ve been impacted by Republican healthcare policies is a sign that they’re sweating the impact of those Republican healthcare policies. I don’t think that it is coming from a place of confidence. It is coming from a sweatier place, I believe. And it’s almost an acknowledgment that those folks need that money because their costs are so much higher, and that’s having a political impact. And I also think, you know, you’re seeing Republicans having to spend a lot of money campaigning in states that were previously considered safe red states. And some of those states have been particularly hard hit by rising health costs and a lot of people losing their insurance. I did a reporting trip to Ohio a little bit ago, and I saw so much evidence of that, and I know it’s happening in other states as well. 

Edney: I also think that everything that Paige and Alice just mentioned are really important, and, you know, these efforts to send out checks and talk about this in certain ways is it’s trying to fill this gap that the Trump administration sort of started by saying, Oh, we’re bringing down drug prices by 鈥� I don’t know, whatever mathematical impossibility that they said they brought them down in. And that’s not actually what people are seeing in their pocketbooks. So it’s at front of mind for them because I think maybe there was some expectation that something might happen, but that’s not what they’re seeing in their bills. 

Rovner: So another interesting finding from the poll is that support for that amorphous phrase “Medicare for All” is at its highest point in at least a decade. And while, as usual, support drops dramatically when people are told that it could mean higher taxes or longer wait times for care, support didn’t drop as much as usual when people were told Medicare for All could mean eliminating private insurance companies. It was, of course, the threat of losing your own coverage that doomed the Clinton healthcare plan and that almost sunk Obamacare on the launch pad. Are Americans finally ready for a big change, or do they just think they are until they see the specifics? 

Ollstein: Well, the question has sort of always been, like: How bad does it need to get before people are open to a radical alternative? And I think, really, until now, people have been happy enough 鈥� I won’t say happy; I’ll say happy enough 鈥� with a partially private, partially public, partially regulated, not partially unregulated healthcare system. Enough people were happy enough to keep these proposals at bay, and now you have so many people who can’t afford insurance, who can’t afford care even if they have insurance. There was some new studies out this week about the number of people with private insurance, what’s considered the good stuff, who still have tons of medical debt and are having to put off payments, you know, on other things and cut back in other areas of life to afford their healthcare. That is changing people’s minds and making people more open. Now, we know that what public sentiment is does not always translate into what Congress is willing to vote for. So I won’t say that it is going to be any kind of foregone conclusion, even if Democrats take back the majorities in Congress, but there’s definitely a shift going on. 

Winfield Cunningham: I was just gonna say to Alice’s point, just the fact that Congress just can’t do anything on healthcare, and you even had quite a lot of Republicans that wanted to extend the subsidies. Like, this is really an area that should have been ripe for bipartisan work, right? I mean, this is like the government subsidizing private plans, something, an idea in theory that Republicans should like and have supported in other ways. 

Rovner: It was a Republican idea! 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, exactly. And then also, when I’ve talked to Democrats about, like, what’s your biggest regret about the ACA, or what’s the thing that you wish you had done differently? Many have said to me: The cliff, the subsidy cliff, was not well done. You shouldn’t have a situation where people are going from subsidies to zero subsidies, and they’re still kind of like mid-income people. So this should have been an area that was ripe for bipartisan work last year. And we all saw what happened. It fell apart. So, I mean, even at this point, Congress is just so dysfunctional. They can’t even, they can’t even agree to fix pieces of a law, which now people kind of generally like. So that’s where we’re at. 

Rovner: Well, it’s funny. I would say one of the big ironies I’ve noticed is that, you know, you’ve got a lot of sort of more progressive Democrats this year running on Medicare for All, and Republicans, you know, that are saying: This is communism. This is socialism. We can’t have this. On the other hand, for the first time I can remember, Republicans are coming out very loudly about greedy insurance companies, which, even more ironically, isn’t really the biggest problem. It’s not what’s driving up healthcare costs. You know, the cost of care is what’s driving up healthcare costs. It’s not excessive insurer profits. But I wonder if the Republicans’ beating up on big insurance is like feeding this desire for Medicare for All 鈥� ironically. I mean, Republicans are terrified about ending up there, and yet I feel like they’re inadvertently pushing us that way. 

Edney: Well, I think they’re also hitting on the zeitgeist of the day. Like, they’re sending this message out because it’s one that’s being well received, and that people are very upset. You know, there was unfortunately the murder of the UnitedHealth[care] CEO Brian Thompson, and I think that that has, like, not abated in the sense that people are really angry, and that any politician who wants to talk about the big, bad insurance companies has free rein to do so. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, I think it’s really easy to get people really riled up about their insurance companies, even though, as you say, Julie, they are not collecting the biggest profits in the healthcare system. But your interaction with the insurer is not personal. You know, you just see this number that you have to pay them every month, and then you see copays you have to pay. Whereas you’re having a personal interaction typically when you’re at the hospital with the doctors and the nurses that are caring for you, and you’re going to see your physician. So there’s much blame to be spread around here in terms of healthcare costs going up, and, like, many villains in this industry. Maybe not. Maybe villains isn’t the right word, but many actors in this industry. But I think it is really easy to get people upset about insurers, in particular. 

Rovner: Yeah, I mean, some of it is that we’ve just invented things that are really cool, like GLP-1 drugs that happen to be really expensive. So that’s not necessarily a villain, but it is definitely one of the things that is driving up, at least at the moment, healthcare costs. 

Well, we need to move on. One of the things that’s pushed healthcare to the top of the concern list, as we’ve mentioned, oh, pretty much every week since the spring, is that while Republicans tried to time the Medicaid and other health spending cuts in their 2025 budget bill to , that message didn’t get to the hospitals, clinics, and state and local governments that are already making cuts in anticipation of lower federal funding to come. Plus, as we’ve said, millions of people saw their Affordable Care Act premiums skyrocket when Republicans declined to continue the expanded premium subsidies. Alice, you managed to see how a lot of this was playing out on the ground on the reporting trip you already referred to. What else did you find out there? 

Ollstein: Yeah, like you said, the effort to put off the more controversial cuts until after the election does not mean that this election will not be about those cuts. Those cuts are coming up in every debate, in every Democratic town hall and speech, and they’re in a lot of ads. And Democrats really see this as one of Republicans’ biggest liabilities going into the election, and they’re really trying to press their advantage there. And polling indicates that it may be working. And, like you said, even though those cuts, a lot of them, aren’t going to hit until 2027, states have to make their budgets now, and so they’re making these deep cuts to services in anticipation of losing all that Medicaid money. Hospitals need to make their budgets now. They are cutting services. They’re closing labor and delivery wards. They’re closing down entire facilities because they see the writing on the wall. And so I thought it was fascinating because I dug up an article my colleagues wrote last year when the bill was being debated and passed, and Democrats were worried that the delayed implementation would make it impossible for them to attack Republicans about it. And, lo and behold, that was not the case. 

Rovner: Yeah. Well, and even though the Medicaid work requirements included in that 2025 bill aren’t required to start until next January, several states have now either started early or started the process of notifying people that their Medicaid coverage will soon be contingent on their proving that they’re working. And 鈥� this is my shocked face 鈥� people are very confused. I will also post a link to a story from Montana Public Radio about how the rollout there has been, well, pun intended, kind of rocky. I thought AI [artificial intelligence] was going to make this process all smooth compared to the last time. That apparently is not the case. 

Edney: Definitely not. I mean, the article you’re referring to about Montana, I mean, it sounded very confusing. Something that you would think AI could sort of clear up is just getting the dates right when you need to be getting paperwork and stuff in, but even that wasn’t the case. 

Ollstein: And adding fuel on the fire here is that the federal administration has gone beyond what Congress ordered in terms of the harshness of the implementation of these work requirements. Even beyond that, certain states are implementing the work requirements in a harsher way than the federal government is requiring, and they are allowed to do that. And so, some are offering exemptions for certain populations, and some are saying no thanks to that. Some are saying, OK, for the first year you get kind of a grace period if you have a serious illness. We’ll just take your word for it if you testify that you have an illness that prevents you from working, and we won’t require, you know, a doctor note or other proof, just for the first year, and then after that you have to prove. But some states are saying: no one-year grace period. You need your proof now, or we’re kicking you off your insurance. And so I think all of those different layers of harsh enforcement are really hitting a lot of people, and we pretty much only have hard data out of Nebraska so far because they were so early in their implementation, way out in front of any other state. And there, we’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of people lose their insurance, and most of them was for, you know, procedural reasons, not because they were ineligible. And so I think that is a sort of canary in the coal mine of what we could see in other states once implementation becomes mandatory everywhere. 

Rovner: And wait until all these people have to go to their doctor, sort of hat in hand, saying you have to write me a note, or I’m going to lose my insurance. 

Winfield Cunningham: I just tend to think, and I haven’t followed this story quite as closely over the last couple of months, but I tend to think 鈥� that a lot of it is going to have to do with the nuts and bolts of what verification looks like, and each state is going to do that differently. And if you believe Dr. [Mehmet] Oz when he talks about this, he makes it sound as though it’s going to be this easy process where people have an app, and they can go into the app, and maybe they have to submit one document one time, but then they can go in and check a box or whatever. But in reality, maybe it’ll look like that in some states. Maybe it won’t look like that in some states. Yeah, if someone just has to go into an app and check something, fine. If someone’s having to log onto a website and get a document from their employer or their educational institution and submit this in a really tedious way, then I do think you’re going to see a lot of people dropping off. So I’m really curious to see what those nuts and bolts look like. 

Rovner: Yeah, I am too. We will clearly see more of this. 

All right, turning to vaccines, because there is always vaccine news. The measles case count in Pennsylvania has now topped 1,000, making it officially the biggest outbreak in 35 years. And some of the complications that doctors are seeing are among people who did not have underlying health conditions, which has been troubling. Even more troubling is a , now at the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. She reminds us that measles causes something called immune amnesia by basically erasing the body’s immunity to other germs, making those who have had measles more susceptible to other infections. So everyone who’s getting measles now is going to be more at risk in the future. And against that backdrop comes a , The New York Times’ Christina Jewett, about Texas Attorney General and Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton, who is investigating pediatricians in the state for what he claims are potential violations of the state’s deceptive trade practices law. Paxton’s office is demanding reams of paperwork from busy pediatric practices, trying to prove that they are pushing unnecessary vaccines in exchange for financial incentives provided by vaccine makers. Given how little profit is made on vaccines at every level of the distribution chain 鈥� so little that many vaccine makers have threatened to get out of the business altogether 鈥� this feels like a weird investigation. Do we know what’s behind it? 

Edney: I don’t think that we know for sure by any means, and there’s not even a ton of information on exactly what he’s investigating, but it does seem to fit with things that President Trump has gone after, that Secretary [Robert F.] Kennedy [Jr.] has talked about in the sense that Big Pharma is making money off of these things, pediatricians are being paid off, and we’ve heard this many times from them. You know, that’s a way they’ve tried to go after vaccines, and I think that Ken Paxton would like some backup from the president for other endeavors that he has in life, and so he was looking for some backup. And maybe that’s one of the reasons for this is, you know, to kind of look more aligned with the administration. 

Rovner: Yeah, he may not dress well, but at least he’s pursuing the president’s policies. 

Winfield Cunningham: I don’t have any inside information about it, but it does feel like a play to look quite aligned with an administration that is increasingly not shy about looking vaccine-skeptical. I mean, Trump has been very out there in recent months, signing the executive order, you know, talking about how, I guess, he says for his five kids their shots were spaced out. He has, you know, personal concerns about this. And then the other thing is it seems like this is attractive to Paxton’s base. You know, I mean, there are plenty of MAHA [Make Americans Healthy Again] moms in Texas who have, you know, left traditional pediatrician practices and gone more like the functional health route, where they go to these doctors who are willing to let them space or skip vaccines, so this seems like maybe a good political move for him. I’m not sure. 

Rovner: And I will just say before we leave this: There are lots of places where there’s clearly industry influence over prescribing practices and types of procedures. But I think the one place it’s fair to say that there is not a lot of profit being made is in vaccines. Vaccines are hanging on by a thread. I’ve been doing this for 40 years. I mean, I was there when they passed the Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, and it’s because all of the vaccine makers were threatening to stop making vaccines. It’s just not a place where there is lots of profit. 

All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. 

Turning to reproductive news, yesterday was the date that the FDA had to report to a federal court in Louisiana how that safety study of the abortion pill mifepristone is going. Alice, what did they say? 

Ollstein: Of course, they waited until, like, 9 p.m. on the deadline, which was very helpful to all of us reporters who were refreshing PACER [Public Access to Court Electronic Records] all day long. But we finally got it. It was not a very fulsome update, I would say. It was just a few pages long. And the main news is that they said we’re going to finish gathering all the data we need by December, but we’re not going to release a report. We’re going to need until March to crunch the numbers and draft our report on whether we deem mifepristone to be safe and effective. Now, I also think it was notable in there that they’re sort of separately studying the drugs’ safety and efficacy and the safety of the telehealth rules around it from 2023 that the Biden administration imposed. And they noted 鈥� and I thought this would, you know, maybe additionally piss off the anti-abortion groups who were already pissed off by the punt until March 鈥� they said that they will be examining the 2023 rule changes in light of both court challenges, saying that the current rules are too loose, and court rulings saying the current rules are too strict and access to 鈥�  

Rovner: Which we rarely talk about! 

Ollstein: Yes, but two different federal courts have ruled that the remaining restrictions on abortion pills are too strict and not justified, and that it would be safe without them. And so you have the FDA acknowledging these competing forces and pressures on it from the courts and from activist groups and from states. And so it really seems like they’re trying to walk this careful line to not piss off anyone, but they’re ending up pissing off everyone. And what I found really notable about the reaction to this filing was you have the pro-abortion rights forces saying, basically, you know, Wake up, sheeple, they’re waiting until right after the midterms and then they’re going to ban everything! And the anti-abortion groups don’t seem to think that’s the case; they do not seem confident that that is what is going to happen. They are blasting the administration not only for not doing more, to date, to impose restrictions on the drugs, but they do not seem to have confidence in this review process at all. So obviously, we don’t know what will happen. They shared very little detail about who’s in charge of this study, exactly what data are they incorporating? So it continues to be somewhat of a black box. 

Rovner: So, what does this all mean for the potential confirmation of Heidi Overton, the White House health policy aide who’s been nominated to head the FDA and had her confirmation hearing, at which she politely declined to answer most of the lawmakers’ questions, and the Senate left town without acting on said nomination? 

Winfield Cunningham: Well, I believe [Sen. Bill] Cassidy has not said yet how he’s going to vote on Overton. I imagine 鈥�  

Rovner: Cassidy, the chairman of the relevant committee. 

Winfield Cunningham: The outgoing Sen. Cassidy. Heidi was asked very pointedly, I think, by Sen. [Patty] Murray, “Do you believe this is safe and effective?” She gave a very carefully 鈥� you could tell her answers were very, very carefully rehearsed. I’m not sure what’s going to happen there, but I was going to say, as I think about after the election and kind of how all of this unfolds, I really have no idea. I think you could kind of argue it both ways. There are a lot of anti-abortion allies in key places at the Domestic Policy Council in certain offices within HHS. In some ways, this administration looks like a bit of a traditionally Republican administration. A lot of folks in there, when I talk to pro-lifers, they are, like, “We really have allies here.” But on the other hand, I think Trump’s kind of done with this. The White House still says he’s the most pro-life president. This is the pro-life president, they say. But he’s made it very clear that he doesn’t really want federal policymaking here. And then RFK Jr., he’s, like, Catholic, but I don’t think this is a top issue for him as well. So I’m genuinely curious. I do not know how they’re going to handle this. 

Rovner: I did not have on my bingo card Trump going with the anti-vaxxers but throwing the anti-abortion forces under the bus. Which, hey, everything’s a surprise. 

Ollstein: And to that point, you know, Cassidy is very anti-abortion, and so if he votes against Overton, it will not be because of her anti-abortion views. It will be because of vaccines or something else. You know, her general leadership abilities or whatnot, whatever else he’s concerned about. It’s not going to be about abortion. But you have some other people on that panel who could be concerned about her views on abortion that could affect her confirmation going forward. And I think it’s notable that that too is getting punted until after the election, so as not to provide any fodder or controversy for the members who are having to run. But I also think that there’s always another election coming up, and so, yes, they don’t want to rile people up right before the midterms with some sort of big sweeping anti-abortion action. But as soon as this election’s over, they’re going to be thinking about 2028 and not wanting to rock the boat there. And so I think these sort of political pressures are only going to continue. And we have seen in Congress and in the executive branch sort of an effort to tell the anti-abortion forces that are getting more and more and more frustrated: Just wait. Just be patient. You know, we’re going to get to you. We’re going to get to your priorities eventually. And it keeps not happening. So you’ve seen that on the defund Planned Parenthood front. They keep saying, Oh, it’s going to be in the next reconciliation bill. It’s going to be in the next one, the next one, the next one. 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, and it keeps not happening. And so you could see that again on this front as well. But, also, you know, whether as a result of a court ruling or just the FDA on its own, something could happen that really restricts drugs both in states with abortion bans and in states where they’re legally protected. This would affect the whole country. 

Rovner: All right. And sure enough, not only do we have outbreaks here in the U.S. of measles and other vaccine-preventable illnesses, there’s now a scary case out of Russia of a lab worker who died of a so-far-unidentified strain of pneumonia. Oh, and the patient worked at a lab in Siberia studying plague. Russian officials said that they have the situation under control, but I feel like we’ve heard that before somewhere? Um, I don’t know about you guys. I’m kind of watching this one with a wary eye. 

Edney: Yeah, I think that that is the right way to be when we have these very secretive countries, China with covid, and now Russia with the plague. Where these things start doesn’t lead to a lot of information getting out there, so filling the holes is very difficult. It sounds like the U.S. government doesn’t really even know a whole lot, and we’ve had assurances from Russia that everything is under control. But where’s the proof? I guess. It hasn’t really manifested. So I think watching it closely is right. No need to panic. There’s been no verified reports of anyone else dying at that lab, but, you know, certainly something not to turn away from. 

Rovner: Finally this week, we’ve talked in the past about how doctors no longer want to be associated with helping carry out the death penalty by lethal injection. Well, in Tennessee, we saw yet another botched execution with the patient surviving not one, but two injections intended to end her life. Fifty-year-old Christa Pike, who was on death row for her part in the torture and murder of a classmate when she was 18, was awake and talking as of Wednesday after being unconscious for several days. And it’s not clear what will happen to her now. In the meantime, though, Tennessee’s governor has put a moratorium on executions in the state for the rest of the year and ordered an independent review of what happened. This was the second time this year the state has failed to successfully carry out an execution. I will link to a story from Nashville Public Radio’s Catherine Sweeney, who is an official media witness for both unsuccessful executions. I will warn you: It’s really vivid. It also raises the question of whether lethal injection, which was supposed to be a more “humane,” air quotes, alternative to hanging or an electric chair, really is. Particularly given that many doctors and now many drug companies won’t participate on ethical grounds, and states are turning to some pretty questionable and, as we’ve seen, not always successful protocols, are we sort of getting to the end of this? Anna, I see you nodding. 

Edney: Yeah, I think that these botched executions and the most recent one have given a lot for the anti-capital-punishment groups to work with and to make their case about torture and that this isn’t something humane that we should be doing in the United States; we’re one of the few developed countries that does do that. And you brought up the point about medications and how a lot of the pharmaceutical companies don’t even want to give them to the corrections facilities anymore. And the problem is then those facilities need to find the drugs somewhere. They’re maybe going to less reputable places, or keeping them, the ones they do find, on hand for too long past their expiration date. And so it’s clearly not working out, when maybe if you had the perfect protocol and the drug just off the line of a very respectable company, things might work. But that’s not what’s been happening. 

Rovner: Yeah, I think we’re going to watch that space. All right, that is this week’s news. Now we’ll play my “Bill of the Month” interview with Michelle Andrews. Then we’ll come back and do our extra credits. 

I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast Michelle Andrews, who reported and wrote the latest 吃瓜不打烊 “Bill of the Month.” Hi, Michelle. It’s been a minute. 

Michelle Andrews: Hi, Julie. It’s great to be here. 

Rovner: So this month’s patient was sent to the emergency room by an urgent care doctor for a particularly severe migraine attack. Tell us who she is, where she’s from, how she ended up at the hospital. 

Andrews: Sure. Her name is Autumn Daniels, and she lives in Champaign, Illinois, and she has a history of severe migraines back to when she was a kid, like a 10-year-old. And so she gets them regularly, more regularly now. And she had had this migraine for seven days, and finally, the urgent care doc said, “If you still are having trouble tomorrow, you need to go to the emergency room.” Because they’d given her some, you know, a shot to help relieve the symptoms, and it hadn’t worked. So she ended up at the emergency room, with her sister, and waited a long time for care. 

Rovner: So once she got there, she got triaged, right 鈥� checked by a nurse to see how serious her ailment was compared to others waiting to be seen. Then what happened? 

Andrews: Sure, I just want to say a word about triage because the hospital kind of makes a big deal of that. It’s just checking her temperature, her pulse, and her blood pressure, and asking her, “Do you often get migraines?” So they did this little bit of “care,” in quotes, and then they sent her back out to the waiting room, and she waited, with her sister. And she waited, for four hours, and nothing happened. 

Rovner: So she leaves and goes to another ER where she does get seen and treated, but then she gets a bill from the first ER, too. How much was it, and what did they say it was for? 

Andrews: The bill was for $410, and they said it was for an emergency room Level 1 visit, and they also stuck a procedural code on it that said that it had been an evaluation and management visit, meaning that some medical care had been provided by a healthcare provider. 

Rovner: Which was questionable, right? 

Andrews: Absolutely questionable. 

Rovner: So, is this a new thing? Hospitals billing for patients who don’t get beyond the initial triage? 

Andrews: Well, it’s new for this hospital, which I thought was interesting. Their policy changed, starting in March, I believe it was, where they said, oh, you know: If you come into our hospital, even if you don’t get treated by a provider, we can still bill you because we’re using up our staff time and we have to keep our facility running. And so that’s the justification that they use. Let me just say, I don’t know that other hospitals do it, but I don’t think it’s that rare, from what I understand. 

Rovner: And her insurance company was not buying this, right? 

Andrews: Exactly. They covered her second ER visit, and that was fine, where she got treated. But this whole, you know, You came to the hospital and you left without getting treatment. Sorry, we’re not going to cover that. 

Rovner: Because technically they said she left against medical advice, right? 

Andrews: Exactly, and of course she didn’t actually receive advice. But I did ask some experts in billing about this, and they said, Well, from the insurer’s perspective, what that often means is that, you know, she didn’t get care at the facility by a provider, and so she’s leaving against their advice, basically. 

Rovner: So, what’s the takeaway here? Is there a way to prevent something like this from happening? 

Andrews: I think there is no way to easily prevent it, but you can certainly ask when you arrive at the hospital, at the ER desk, with your throbbing headache, you can say, “Oh, what happens if I wait and I don’t get care?” You can check with your insurance company and ask them. You know, you would do that perhaps if you were someone who often ended up at the ER, but it’s not something most of us are going to think about. And then let me just say, you can, of course, appeal, and you should appeal if you’re not getting the answers or you’re getting billed in a way that you shouldn’t be billed. 

Rovner: Yeah, I love the kicker of your story: If you don’t appeal, the answer is always no. 

Andrews: Always no. Yes, exactly. 

Rovner: But still, I mean, another list of things that you need to do when you’re in an emergency health situation. Awesome. 

Andrews: I know, I know, and I think there was some conversation about well, you know, you signed these papers, and she’s like, Of course I signed the papers. I can’t be held responsible for the papers. I couldn’t 鈥� I could barely see. I was vomiting every 10 minutes. 

Rovner: Anyway, thank you for following this. And yet another thing to beware of when you go to the emergency room. Michelle Andrews, thanks for doing this. 

Andrews: Thanks, Julie. 

Rovner: OK, we are back. It’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Alice, why don’t you go first this week? 

Ollstein: Yeah, I have a story from my colleague Carmen Paun. It’s called “,” and it is how that approach to foreign policy and foreign aid is playing out in the healthcare space, where the CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] is now closing offices it had in a bunch of other countries that were supporting local health systems there and also helping to monitor for outbreaks of infectious diseases. Nothing bad ever came from overseas, as we know! And so there’s a lot of worry about this. There is a lot of prediction over both the cuts that have come to HIV prevention and a bunch of other things, increased risk of outbreaks, but also just an inability to have early detection going forward. And there’s going to be some big appropriations fights about this that she previews in the story. 

Rovner: Good story. Paige. 

Winfield Cunningham: Yeah, mine is a New York Times story by Reed Abelson and Teddy Rosenbluth called “.” And I thought this was a really, really interesting story. It’s basically talking about how hospitals are running their coding through AI tools, and the AI is basically picking up more complicated conditions and then adding secondary conditions to basically maximize the number of things that they can bill the insurers for. And I had heard rumblings about this, and I remember actually talking to my sister last year, and she was telling me how they haul in the nurses and actually put them through training sessions of how to code for maximal return. And so it’s easy to see how if you’re now just starting to run this stuff through AI, they’re finding ways to just, you know, upcode as much as possible. So something to really watch amid this larger conversation about healthcare costs ballooning. 

Rovner: Indeed. Anna. 

Edney: Mine is from Annie Waldman at ProPublica: “.” Obviously, it’s an awful story about this baby who was given raw milk and contracted a terrible case of E. coli, and she’s going to have lifelong problems from this. It’s not just some simple thing. But I think the really important point that a lot of coverage before I haven’t seen as much of is that this was in California. The state really couldn’t do a whole lot. This farmer had sold potentially contaminated raw milk, and that’s not supposed to be something, even contaminated or not, that is sold. But there really wasn’t a lot that the state could do. When they even went to collect samples, they couldn’t enter the farm. They had to tell her they were coming back tomorrow to collect samples to test the milk. So, I mean, you can imagine all the things you could do to make sure the milk is clean by then. So I think it was an interesting look at why maybe this is proliferating right now. The FDA certainly isn’t doing a whole lot, given the secretary’s support for raw milk, and then it seems to be like the states’ hands are tied as well. 

Rovner: Yeah, it was a really good story. Well, my extra credit this week is an amazing read from Sarah Zhang at The Atlantic. It’s called “,” and it’s about a rare but tragic medical mystery involving mostly young men who fail to wake up normally from anesthesia, even for minor procedures. I won’t spoil the solution to the mystery, but it’s really a testament to smart and persistent moms for figuring out what happened and why, and working to prevent it from happening to more people in the future. You really need to read it. 

All right, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts 鈥� as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X and on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging about these days? Alice? 

Ollstein: Mostly on Bluesky , and still on X . 

Rovner: Anna. 

Edney: All the places . 

Rovner: Paige. 

Winfield Cunningham: And I’m mostly on X . 

Rovner: We will be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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鈥楳edicare for All鈥� Is Back. Now Comes the Hard Part. /health-care-costs/medicare-for-all-proposals-universal-healthcare-implementation-difficult/ Thu, 08 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2293686 As Americans grow increasingly frustrated with their healthcare system, a proposal that has long been kicked around on the Democratic periphery is showing up in debates and on political platforms: “Medicare for All.”

According to a , nearly 60% of Americans favor a system of Medicare for All, while 85% of Democrats support it. For years, Democrats in Congress symbolic that have had no chance of passage but have been supported by dozens of members.

Democratic Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland added his support in December. “I was listening to my constituents,” he said. “It’s just reached the complete breaking point. Our system is unaffordable and unsustainable with premiums going up, copays going up and up.”

At a time when more than 100 million Americans carry medical debt, it’s easy to get behind a promise of free, or free-ish, no-hassle health care. But turning an inspirational slogan into law gets gnarly. Those three words, Medicare for All 鈥� a pledge to bring universal healthcare to every American 鈥� mean not one thing to supporters but many. And all versions of such a system face considerable obstacles to enactment.

“Medicare for All is a slogan, not a concrete proposal, so it’s hard to have an opinion on,” said Amy Finkelstein, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist who, with Stanford’s Liran Einav, wrote , which laid out what the pair considered a realistic and fiscally responsible plan for providing basic insurance to every American.

“What we can afford is a basic plan 鈥� what we call a shack, not a chateau,” Finkelstein said. Its bedrock would be a government-funded skinny plan less generous than Medicare, with potential constraints such as a limited number of physical therapy visits or stricter criteria for getting a knee replacement, but guaranteed robust basic coverage for catastrophic medical conditions. She estimated that most Americans would opt for supplemental coverage.

The most high-profile political proponent of Medicare for All this election season is Abdul El-Sayed, the Democratic senatorial candidate in Michigan, who has made a more sweeping proposal central to his platform 鈥� far more chateau than shack. It would create one plan that covers a suite of medical needs with no cost to patients, including dental and vision care, which traditional Medicare doesn’t cover.

(Traditional Medicare has increasingly come to resemble private insurance with premiums and coinsurance, and, unlike standard commercial plans, it has no annual out-of-pocket maximum. To fill such gaps, patients buy separate Medigap and drug plans.)

“The most important thing is just to make Medicare whole 鈥� meaning no charge for medical care 鈥� rolling back the complexity and costs of the last 10 years,” El-Sayed told 吃瓜不打烊.

His program would start off covering children and adults five years younger than the current eligibility age for Medicare and close the gap over a period, he has estimated, of eight years. To ease the transition for the healthcare system, he would initially set the Medicare payment rates to mirror the totals doctors and hospitals receive now to avoid a “price shock” to their operations. Future increases would be limited to the rate of inflation.

One big question is how to make the financing work in a highly profitable industry. National health spending was projected to hit in 2025, or nearly 20% of the U.S. gross domestic product.

The United States as much on healthcare per person than many peer countries. And health insurance is often a company’s second-largest expense after payroll.

But how will the government divert financial outlays of employers and households into a new Medicare for All system without new taxes or massive government spending?

When polls ask voters whether they would support Medicare for All if it meant losing their insurance or paying new taxes, support often drops.

“You could decide to raise taxes and cover more,” Finkelstein said. “If you don’t want to cut current Medicare benefits, you could decide to bust the budget, which seems to be a common practice.”

Joe Biden said that, as president, he any Medicare for All bill, given the cost, which was estimated at up to . The bills in Congress don’t include very detailed financing plans.

Economists who have mapped out the possibilities are divided on a realistic path.

A group of that converting to a Medicare for All program could save $450 billion annually. That’s in part because a government plan could negotiate 鈥� or simply set 鈥� far better prices for hospitals, doctors, drugs, and devices than private insurers. It would reduce the overhead created by private insurance with its army of negotiators, coders, and claim deniers 鈥� and reduce profits.

Strong forces are pushing back against such “rightsizing” of exorbitant prices, most notably: insurers, hospitals, and drug and device manufacturers. In 2022, they spent on lobbying and have been a powerful force for job creation. But a grand Medicare for All proposal may simply be a strategy to open the debate to lesser possibilities. President Barack Obama’s initial Affordable Care Act proposal contained ambitious ideas 鈥� such as drug price negotiation 鈥� that fell by the wayside to get the votes for passage.

Texas Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico supports what he calls “Medicare for Y’all” 鈥� allowing people under 65 to buy into Medicare.

“There are versions of Medicare for All that could potentially include our proposal, and versions that could look extremely different,” Finkelstein said.

Support in some parts of the industry is growing.

According to one survey, more than have said they’d prefer some sort of single-payer system. Though the American Medical Association is opposed, its student and resident sections are the opposition. The , the nation’s second-largest physician group, also supports Medicare for All. Obama called the ACA a “starter house.” It was “an improvement, but it has not met the need,” Van Hollen said.

Now the growing number of Medicare for All proponents will have to define exactly what kind of new house they can accept and afford.

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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鈥楳edicare for All鈥� Message Attracts Voters Buckling Under Medical Bills /elections/medicare-for-all-abdul-el-sayed-michigan-midterm-elections/ Wed, 07 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2294066 LANSING, Mich. 鈥� Christina Starks-Clay doesn’t know how “Medicare for All” would work exactly, but she’s willing to bet it’d be better than what she has now.

Standing in line for U.S. Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed’s town hall in the state’s capital in September, she whipped out her phone to pull up a screenshot. It was of the $1,000 cashier’s check she’d picked up at the bank that day to pay down a chunk of her son’s dental bills. An early childhood special education paraprofessional, she still owed $389, even with good dental insurance. Her own cleaning a few weeks before cost $600.

She tried to talk herself down at the bank, to focus on being grateful for what she could afford.

“I’m like, 鈥楾ina, OK, you were in a position for this moment to do this,’” she said. “A lot of people couldn’t do what I had to do today. I couldn’t do it. But I did it. So I need to hear, how are you going to make this better for everyone?”

Many who waited in the hot sun that afternoon in a line stretching blocks through downtown Lansing shared similar anxieties. A man ahead of Starks-Clay talked about watching his brother rack up thousands of dollars in medical debt. A professor emeritus at nearby Michigan State University worried aloud about his grandkids’ medical care, because his adult kids were struggling to meet a $9,000 insurance deductible. Healthcare workers who’d turned up for the event described patients choosing between affording medication or food, or how they themselves had been financially devastated by a medical crisis.

They all knew Michigan Democrat El-Sayed’s rallying cry by heart, chanting it when the candidate took the stage: “Money out of politics! Money in your pocket! Medicare for All!”

Abdul El-Sayed stands at a podium in an event space. He is surrounded on both sides by supporters holding signs.
Abdul El-Sayed (D-Mich.) speaks at a rally in Detroit on Aug. 7. (Emily Elconin/Bloomberg via Getty Images)

Support for Medicare for All is at its highest in at least a decade, according to a . The survey found two-thirds of Americans now favor expanding the government health program that largely covers seniors (about are enrolled in private plans through Medicare Advantage).

But many people don’t actually know how to define Medicare for All. Traditionally, the idea has been to establish a single health insurance program, run by the federal government, that would guarantee coverage for Americans and minimize or even eliminate private insurance. How much people like the idea depends on what they’re told about it, pollsters have found.

Still, at a time when of Americans say they can afford their healthcare, Medicare for All has become a progressive shorthand for radical, systemic change.

“Too many people don’t have health insurance, too many people who do have insurance can’t afford medical care, and many people are terrified about the costs of being sick,” said Jonathan Oberlander, a professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill who specializes in the politics of healthcare reform.

“And in an electorate that wants change, that is disenchanted with the status quo, Medicare for All is an important symbol,” he said.

That’s why Democrats running for Senate seats in the midterm elections in such states as Maine, Minnesota, and Florida tout their support for scrapping the current health insurance system in favor of broad Medicare coverage. But nowhere is the issue as central to a race as in Michigan, where Medicare for All has become synonymous with El-Sayed.

El-Sayed, who trained as a doctor and served as Detroit’s top public health official, has campaigned on Medicare for All since his unsuccessful bid for governor in 2018. To Starks-Clay, that means he has a plan and will “stick to it,” she said.

That’s appealing to voters right now, said Ashley Kirzinger, director of survey methodology at KFF, a health information nonprofit that includes 吃瓜不打烊. “When we ask people what do they want to hear from candidates in regards to healthcare, it’s a plan to bring down healthcare costs.”

American Dream or Pipe Dream?

Medicare for All has been the shiny object of progressive politics in previous campaigns, including Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ 2016 presidential bid and the 2020 Democratic presidential primary. Its popularity rises and falls in cycles, Oberlander said. And today people are painfully aware their care is getting more expensive and harder to access.

In the first decade or so after the passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2010, the nation’s uninsured rate was cut . Insurance companies could no longer deny people coverage based on preexisting conditions. Since then, to cover more people, 40 states plus Washington, D.C., have expanded Medicaid, the government health program for those with low incomes or disabilities.

Now it feels as if we’re moving backward, Oberlander said. “We are now, in the past two years, in an era where the Trump administration and congressional Republicans have reversed that progress.”

Michigan, a battleground state that President Donald Trump won in 2024, saw some of the after the GOP-controlled Congress allowed enhanced tax subsidies, which helped people afford their premiums, to expire at the end of last year. Insurance companies in Michigan hiked individual marketplace rates by an average of 20%. And up to 355,000 Michiganders are expected to lose their Medicaid coverage in 2028 because of cuts included in Trump’s signature law, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, according to estimates from the , a left-leaning think tank.

At El-Sayed’s town hall in Lansing, Darleana Ash said patients at the medical diagnostics lab where she works are increasingly skipping tests because they can’t afford them. Others drive hours from rural areas because their local labs have closed or are no longer in their insurance networks. She worries about the patients who must choose between their medications and groceries some months.

“If you got somebody that’s 75, 80 years old, guess what? They’re going to go without the medication, because they got to eat,” she said.

Packed in near the front of the crowded town hall was Cindy Lou Coolich, a boisterous retiree wearing a campaign T-shirt and cowboy hat. She spent years working for a company that helped uninsured people enroll in coverage, until she got sick herself. A bout of sepsis nearly killed her and left her disabled. Suddenly, she was the one enrolling in Medicaid and living on $900 a month from Social Security.

She lost the 15-acre horse farm she’d owned, and then everything else, she said. “Except my car.” The saving grace, oddly, was the death of her ex-husband. Because they’d been married for more than 10 years, she could benefit from his Social Security benefits. “So now I’m doing quite well!” she laughed. But to her, it hardly seemed like the mark of a functioning healthcare system that someone had to die for things to get better.

A Universal Response

Democrats aren’t the only ones responding to voters’ healthcare discontent. Republican Mike Rogers, a former Michigan congressman and El-Sayed’s opponent, recently .

“I just can’t think of a more important issue to the people of Michigan than healthcare and costs, the rising costs,” he said. At a announcing his health platform, he broadly attacked El-Sayed and Medicare for All.

“[If] the government’s going to give you something, they have to take it away from someone else,” Rogers said.

Mike Rogers gives a thumbs up on stage at a rally. Supporters behind him hold American flags.
Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) at a rally in Sterling Heights, Michigan, on Aug. 31. (Sarah Rice/Bloomberg via Getty Images)

Under Medicare for All, millions of Michiganders with private health insurance would lose that coverage, he said. Pointing to estimates that Medicare for All would cost some $4 trillion per year, he said, “Guess what? People pay for that.” (A recent researchers found that the cost of implementing Medicare for All, estimated at $4.2 trillion, would save about $1 trillion in healthcare spending.) Rogers’ campaign declined an interview request from 吃瓜不打烊.

Concerns about increased taxation, disruption to the current system, and reduced access to services can make Medicare for All a political liability in a close election, Oberlander said. “It doesn’t matter if the fears that they’re spreading are actually accurate,” he said. “Politically, what matters is if they can scare people.”

But even if El-Sayed wins in November, the chances of Medicare for All replacing the current system “remain very remote in the short to medium term,” Oberlander said.

Given the staunch opposition from Republicans and many moderate Democrats, not to mention the lobbying power of the healthcare industry, massively overhauling the U.S. health system won’t suddenly be achievable because of a single Senate candidate.

Thomas “Jermaine” Carey knows this. A self-described activist, he attended a recent El-Sayed town hall in Detroit feeling “kind of sold out” by what he calls the “straight-ticket” Democratic Party. Medicare for All sounds good, he said. “Do I believe it?” He shrugged.

“It’s still America,” he said. “You still have super PACs, the lobbyists that control everything.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Medicare Is More Broken Than We Thought /podcast/an-arm-and-a-leg-medicare-broken/ Mon, 05 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2292171&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2292171 By Oct. 1, at least 2 million seniors will have received alarming notices: Their health plans 鈥� which they get through Medicare Advantage, the version of Medicare run by private health insurance companies 鈥� will disappear at the end of the year.

Many will be stuck without a lot of options. In some cases, no other companies in their area may offer Medicare Advantage plans to replace them. This isn’t the first time this has happened. Last year, almost 3 million seniors found themselves in similar situations.

An Arm and a Leg host Dan Weissmann and producer Emily Pisacreta looked into what happened when those cancellations hit Minnesota. The collapse of a major Medicare Advantage carrier there led to “total chaos,” according to the director of the state’s Medicare assistance agency. Everyday people stepped up to help one another in the fallout.

Plus, 吃瓜不打烊 senior correspondent Julie Appleby joins to discuss the role of private health insurance companies in Medicare. She explains how these companies shape seniors’ choices, including in Medicare supplemental plans, whose premiums have skyrocketed.

Dan Weissmann Host and producer of "An Arm and a Leg." Previously, Dan was a staff reporter for Marketplace and Chicago's WBEZ. His work also appears on "All Things Considered," Marketplace, the BBC, "99% Invisible," and "Reveal," from the Center for Investigative Reporting.

Credits

Emily Pisacreta Producer
Adam Raymonda Audio wizard
Ellen Weiss Editor
Click to open the Transcript Transcript: Medicare plans keep disappearing

Note: “An Arm and a Leg” uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.

Please note that this transcript may include errors.

Dan: Hey there. In the first week of October last year, 2025 鈥� a whole bunch of senior citizens in Minnesota got a letter with some bad news. 

Amy Hockert: A lot of changes coming in 2026. We know that at minimum 160,000 of you, absolutely have to pay attention to this,

Dan: Their health insurance through Medicare Advantage was going away. 

Erin: I was so mad. I was like, “No. Now what do I do?” And I look at my husband and said, “Now what?” “

Dan: Folks like Erin鈥� who lives in small-town Cambridge,Minnesota鈥�  were going to have to find a new plan by the end of Medicare’s annual open enrollment period, which would start in a couple weeks.

Up until now, Erin had been on a plan from a local nonprofit insurance outfit called U Care.

UCare offered some of the most generous and affordable plans in Medicare Advantage 鈥� the version of Medicare operated by private health insurance companies. 

But U Care was going belly up.

FOX 9: The collapse of UCare after 40 years in Minnesota has been swift and stunning.

Dan: Callers jammed the phonelines at Minnesota’s Aging Pathways hotline 鈥� thats the state agency that helps people with Medicare. Kelli Jo Greiner runs it.

Kelli Jo Greiner: I don’t know any other way to describe it other than total chaos. Our phones were ringing off the hook.

Dan: Meanwhile, in the Twin Cities suburb of Maple Grove, an insurance broker named Alison Ebert had been getting ready for her busy season, making appointments with her usual clients.

Alison Ebert: October 1st through October 14th, I always set my appointments with my clients. I always joke I get paid in cookies and coffee because I go to their homes, we sit down. I know their families, I know their kids, their grandkids

Dan: The day open enrollment started, she got 47 calls 鈥� from people she’d never met. People whose coffee and cookies she’d never tasted.  That was new. 

And more would call. Because more letters were starting to go out.

Not just from U Care. Other health insurance carriers were dropping out of the area. UnitedHealthcare, BlueCross, Aetna, Humana 鈥� all canceled Medicare Advantage plans in counties all over the state. Three counties were left with no Medicare Advantage plans at all. 

And鈥� this wasn’t just something that was just happening in Minnesota. Almost 3 million seniors across the country had plans in 2025 that would stop being offered to them in 2026.

And that’s because at their headquarters, insurance companies had done their calculations, assessed their risks, and decided that offering plans to those people would no longer be profitable enough. So, seniors from Maine to California saw the number of available Medicare Advantage plans shrink by the dozen 鈥� leaving a lot of them confused, and with fewer, often worse and more costly health insurance options. 

It’s part of a big new trend 鈥� these disappearing acts  have been increasing in recent years, and insurance companies have already signaled that more are coming. Major insurers have already announced intentions to dump plans that currently cover more than two million seniors. 

We’ve spoken with folks in a dozen states 鈥� in rural places like Vermont and North Dakota, and in states with rural and urban centers like Maryland and Minnesota 鈥� about how it all went down last year 鈥� and what we can take away for this year.

My colleague Emily Pisacreta and our awesome summer intern Lynn Barbera made those calls. And Emily, you called that experience “eye opening.” 

Emily: Uh, yeah. We already knew from previous reporting that people had problems with Medicare Advantage. At first this story sort of seemed like one more thing people on Medicare Advantage had to worry about. But it turns out to be more than that. What happened last year 鈥� and is about to happen again this fall 鈥� showed us big problems, problems that affect everyone who’s on Medicare 鈥� or hopes to be one day. There are layers to this. 

Dan: And we’re gonna peel them back. Get ready for a big dose of Medicare.

This is An Arm and a Leg, a show about why health care costs so freaking much and what we can maybe do about it. I’m Dan Weissmann, I’m a reporter and I like a challenge. So our job on this show is to take one of the most enraging, terrifying, depressing parts of American life and to bring you a show that’s entertaining, empowering and useful.

Emily, a while back, we looked at problems with Medicare Advantage. How about we do a little recap?

Emily: Yeah. 

Dan: We were taking our first deep look at Medicare itself, and as we said then, it kind of blew our minds. 

Emily: Before we did that story, I was under the impression that you wake up on your 65th birthday and never have to pay a medical bill again, never have to deal with health insurance companies again. In fact, that’s the dream of Medicare For All. 

Dan: But it’s not the reality of Medicare as it exists. For one thing, signing up means making a dizzying number of choices. 

And you basically never escape private insurance companies. No way. Turns out, they run a lot of Medicare 鈥� so you could see dozens of different plans offered by different companies. 

But here’s the most important part: You have to choose between what’s now called Traditional Medicare 鈥� run by the U.S. Government 鈥� and Medicare Advantage plans, run by private insurance companies. 

And they both have downsides. 

Traditional medicare doesn’t cover everything. For outpatient medical care 鈥� for doctor visits, outpatient procedures, infusions, physical therapy, X-rays and MRIs, you name it 鈥� Medicare only pays 80 percent of the bill.  

And those other things can get so expensive 鈥� the remaining 20 percent can run to thousands of dollars that most seniors don’t have. 

If you want that covered 鈥� and, I mean, you do 鈥� you actually have to buy a “supplemental” policy 鈥� people call them “Medigap” plans. They’re offered by private insurance companies. And you pay a premium. 

Oh, and did I mention that you’re already paying a premium to the feds for your Medicare? Yep. Exactly how much depends on your financial situation, but most people pay just over 200 bucks a month.

Medigap premiums 鈥� to the private companies 鈥� are on top of that. They vary a lot 鈥� by what plan you pick, and by where you live 鈥� but the average is another two-hundred and some every month. And that number. 

So you’re paying all that but then you’ve still got another gap. Vision, dental, and hearing. Traditional Medicare doesn’t cover them at all. So Medigap plans. 

The dark joke is that eyes, ears and teeth are “luxury organs”

Because who needs to see or hear or chew? 

So those are some BIG gaps.

A lot of Medicare Advantage plans offer to fill those gaps:

MA Ad 2: This card I’m holding in my hand, it’s an example of an all-in-one Medicare Advantage membership card.

Dan: Lots of them include what’s missing  

Woman in Ad2: That card helps me with my vision costs, my dental costs.

Dan: Some of them even subsidize the premium you’d be paying to the feds, even bringing it down to zero. You can see how appealing that is.

鈥� and insurance companies hammer that appeal home with floods of TV ads

Plus direct mail, phone calls, and facebook ads out the wazoo. None of which mention the downsides to Medicare Advantage鈥� 

 which are basically: All the downsides we’re all familiar with from dealing with insurance companies. 

Their network might not include your doctors and providers. It might not include very many providers near you at all. 

And once you find an in-network provider, the insurance company can make you jump through hoops like pre-authorization. Or deny a claim. And then you get to fight through an appeals process. 

I talked with a guy in Texas, Robert Wolpa. He’s got HIV, a pacemaker, other stuff. He said he felt like he was spending half his days on hold, waiting to talk with badly-paid, badly-trained people.

Robert Wolpa: I’m 71. I just turned 71 in November and I’ve got, I’ve got a little of the HIV cognizant crap. Like, my short term memory is gone. And I think to myself, what have I gotten myself into?

Dan: This is the thing: You can be 65 years old, in totally decent shape, playing pickleball or whatever, never seeing a doctor. 

But when you pick Medicare Advantage, most of the time you’re also choosing for an older, sicker version of yourself. Who may need to see specialists, and who may not have as much capacity to fight with insurance companies. 

I mean, most relatively young and healthy people have a hard enough time. 

This is where Traditional Medicare starts to look much more appealing. Practically every provider takes it, and denials are almost unheard of.

But for most people, if you’ve chosen Medicare Advantage, it’s a no-backsies situation. 

You can still sign up for Traditional Medicare, but you may not be able to get a Medigap policy. 

For one thing, it may not be in your budget. Robert Wolpa got a quote: Almost 500 bucks a month. Like a third of his social security check.

Robert Wolpa: And I said, okay. Next option.

Dan: And lots of people don’t have the option at all. In most states, if you don’t sign up at age 65, Medigap plans are allowed to reject you if you have鈥� pre-existing conditions. 

Sarah Jane Tribble: It’s sort of shocking, actually, right? Like, the Affordable Care Act passes and makes it so that everybody with pre existing conditions can get insurance no matter what, but it leaves out the people who might need that the most, who are 65 and older. 

Dan: That’s the person who had introduced us to Robert Wolpa, and helped us understand this whole issue. Sarah Jane Tribble,a reporter with our pals at 吃瓜不打烊 had just published her own story about the pitfalls of Medicare Advantage.

This comes as a big surprise to a LOT of folks 鈥� as Sarah Jane found out while she was reporting her story, and talking about it with friends.

With all of these鈥� advantage 鈥� all the marketing, and all the gaps it fills鈥� Medicare Advantage has grown by leaps and bounds in its 20-some years. 

At this point, the majority of seniors are on Medicare Advantage.

So, OK: Long recap, but. That’s what we KNEW a couple of years ago. 

And it turns out 鈥� based on what happened last fall, and what’s about to happen this year 鈥� the problems are way worse than we knew. 

Which brings us back to our friends in Minnesota. In early October 2025.

News anchor 1: In 90 days, thousands of Minnesotans will lose their Medicare Advantage coverage.

News anchor 2: Many major health care providers are dropping their Medicare Advantage plans in 2026. 

Dan: So, Emily. What the heck happened?

Emily: So that local nonprofit insurance company 鈥� UCare鈥� they went broke, and all their Medicare Advantage plans got pulled from the market. Pretty quickly after that, UnitedHealthcare, Aetna, and others sent break up letters of their own to thousands of their beneficiaries.

Lots of people turned to insurance brokers for help. 

But many brokers weren’t calling them back. Because things had started going haywire for them too. Insurance broker Alison Ebert told us she was used to getting paid in cookies and coffee 鈥� and this time around, she would mean that literally 鈥� because in the days leading up to open enrollment she got an unusual call from her contact at UnitedHealthcare.

Alison Ebert: She said, “I just wanna let you know before you get the email, we’re not paying commissions this year.”

Emily No commissions. No payment from the insurance company for anyone she would enroll in their Medicare Advantage plans. Which is for health insurance brokers 鈥� the whole business model. 

Alison Ebert: And my heart just sunk. That was the first phone call, and one by one thereafter, all the major carriers except for Allina Health Aetna, followed suit.

Emily: Other brokers in Minnesota told me the same thing. I asked Alison: why do you think they cut commissions? She says a rep for one of the big companies told her the ugly truth. 

Alison Ebert: With UCare exiting the market,” she said, “Let’s face it, we don’t want everybody that sunk UCare on our plan. And so this is how we’re gonna c- curb enrollments.” 

Emily:  Alison got the message: These insurance companies wanted to curb enrollments. They specifically didn’t want to insure people who they tho  ught “sunk UCare” 鈥� meaning, people who used health care. Who filed claims. Who cost money.If brokers didn’t get commissions for selling plans to these folks, a lot fewer of them would sign up.  

Alison Ebert: Because they’ve always told us about 80% of the sales comes through brokers like us.

Emily: Now, a few weeks later, it was October 15, open enrollment was starting, and her phone was ringing off the hook. 47 people on day one. And more every day after that. Plus all her regular clients 鈥� the ones whose grandkids she knew by name.

 Alison had to decide what to do  鈥� could she afford to help all those people for free? 

Alison Ebert: I have kids. I mean, I deserve to get paid. I need to put gas in my tank to go to these people’s homes.  

Emily: But Alison didn’t think it was right to leave people hanging.

Alison Ebert: I left a message on my answering machine saying, “You know, due to the fact that we’re not getting paid this season, a lot of brokers left the market and I’m just returning calls as they come. But just be aware that it might take me a couple weeks to get back to you.”

Emily: Instead of going to everyone’s house, she set up office hours at a coffee shop to be able to see as many people as possible.

Meanwhile鈥� Kelli Jo Greiner and her colleagues at the state’s Medicare hotline were scrambling too.

Kelli Jo Greiner: We had wait times of two hours. Nobody wants to wait for even 10 minutes, let alone two hours

Emily: She and her team had to improvise.

Kelli Jo Greiner: We have staff that don’t usually do Medicare counseling. They help with, like, long-term care and other areas, and we even put those folks on the phones to help

Emily: And she wrangled a weekly spot on FOX 9 in the Twin Cities to answer big questions.

Amy Hockert: Medicare Monday is what we’re calling it. A lot of changes coming in 2026. Kelli Jo, thanks for joining us.

Kelli Jo Greiner: Well, thank you. I’m glad to be here again. 

Amy Hockert: All right. Well, let’s roll through it here.

Emily: Kelli Jo told viewers: The most important thing is to be proactive. If you don’t do anything, the system will put you into traditional Medicare 鈥� but without a Medigap plan. Oh, and by the way, she told them: Your drug plan will probably disappear too, unless you sign up for a new one.

So 鈥� she said, the good news, as far as it goes is: Right now you have a choice. And it’s just like the one you had when you were 65. You get to basically start over if you want, and get a Medigap plan even if you have a pre-existing condition. This is a special situation, they can’t reject you. 

And once you’re on they can’t tell you which doctors to see. Almost every doctor in the country takes traditional Medicare.   

Kelli Jo Greiner: And for many people that is a huge advantage,’cause we have a lot of snowbirds here that go south for the winter.

Emily: But she says most people she talked with decided they just couldn’t afford those Medigap premiums. They were stuck with Medicare Advantage. Only now they had fewer and crummier Medicare Advantage plans to choose from. 

Also, they were more expensive than these folks were used to. 

Kelli Jo says a lot of people had been on plans with no monthly premium 鈥� but now all those plans were gone.  

Kelli Jo Greiner: and so they ended up having to switch to a plan with a premium

Emily: And in a lot of cases, without some extra benefits that Kelli Jo says are a big draw. Like discounts on groceries 鈥� or free gym memberships, a feature called Silver Sneakers.

Kelli Jo Greiner: and I cannot even tell you how many people called us about Silver Sneakers. They were so upset about that change.

Emily: So people ended up paying more than they were used to 鈥�  and getting less. 

Dan: OK. So to recap: some Medicare Advantage plans disappeared.

Emily: Yes.

Dan: The remaining plans weren’t great.

Emily: Right.

Dan: And most people chose them anyway, because they couldn’t afford Medigap.

Emily: Correct. And we can expect more of the same this year鈥� and for who knows how many years ahead.

Dan: So Medicare Advantage is getting shakier鈥� even while it keeps growing. 

Coming right up: how the dynamics behind all of this add up to trouble for all of Medicare. And what we can maybe do about it.   .

This season of An Arm and a Leg is a co-production of Public Road Productions and 吃瓜不打烊 鈥� that’s a non-profit newsroom covering health issues in America. Their reporters are amazing 鈥� you’re about to hear from another of them. We’re honored to be their colleagues.

Dan: Kelli Jo Greiner told us many folks who lost their Medicare Advantage plans  just couldn’t afford Medigap supplements. 

Which, as we’ve been learning, has been one of the big dynamics behind the growth of Medicare Advantage in the first place. 

Emily: Our colleague Julie Appleby found recently, that dynamic is getting starker.

Julie’s a senior correspondent with our pals at 吃瓜不打烊.  

Julie Appleby: I cover all things health insurance pretty much, uh, from the Affordable Care Act to Medicare, other kinds of health insurance programs, uh, that kind of thing. 

Emily: Earlier this year, Julie got a call from a broker in Illinois.

Julie Appleby: And he was telling me that more than, like, 80 of his customers were enrolled in a Medicare supplement,

Emily: A specific plan. One that usually had low premiums. 

Julie Appleby: But they suddenly raised their rates by 45%. And he said, “In my 49 years of doing business as a broker, I’ve never seen a premium increase be effective immediately on everyone. So I thought, “Hey, I’m gonna start looking into this.”

Emily:  She found some good data from a company called Telos Actuarial 鈥� which showed: this price hike was part of a trend.

Julie Appleby: There were increases going on kind of throughout the industry.

Emily:. On average, the data showed premiums on Medigap went up almost 17% from the previous year.

Not as high as that one plan with 45 percent increase, but still nothing to sneeze at. Brokers and other experts told her: That kind of increase used to be almost unheard of. But for the last bunch of years, it’s become a new normal. 

Julie sees a connection with the growth of Medicare Advantage. 

To understand it 鈥� and why everything about Medicare could be getting shakier and shakier 鈥� Julie’s gonna introduce us to a key term: Risk Pool. It’s a big part of how insurance prices get set.

Julie Appleby: Insurance is a giant pool, right? We all are in the pool, and everybody kinda shares the cost. The insurance company has to sit down and try to figure out, “Well, gee, I’ve got this pool of people. How sick are they? How, how often are they gonna go to the doctor? How often are they gonna be hospitalized?” And then calculate out, “Okay, so what might that cost me?”

Emily: So a lot depends on: Who’s in the risk pool for any given plan? If Medigap plans are more expensive than Medicare Advantage 鈥� but provide better coverage 鈥� then, who’s gonna choose the Medigap? People who think they’re gonna *need* that better coverage. Sicker people.

And with millions of people getting the chance at do-overs 鈥� because their Medicare Advantage plans got nuked 鈥� these Medigap insurers have a bunch of new customers, who 鈥� it seems reasonable to think 鈥� may be sicker.  

Julie Appleby: So these carriers are, then having to think, “Wow, I’m taking all these people on in this region, so I’m gonna have to raise my premiums to cover what might be those expected costs.” 

Emily : And as premiums grow and grow, what we could see is a kind of vicious cycle. Because as new people turn 65, they’re looking at Medigap premiums that are harder and harder to afford.

So more and more people are attracted to Medicare Advantage. I spoke with a researcher named Laura Skopec 鈥� she studies Medicare at the Urban Institute, an economic and social policy think tank. Here’s how she put it: If this trend continues 鈥� with Medigap prices driving more people to Medicare Advantage

Laura Skopec: We’re gonna see a traditional Medicare that is sicker and wealthier, which is sort of a weird combination, but it’s gonna be sort of the sickest people that really need good access to specialists, wanna be able to go to the cancer center, you know, any sort of doctor they wanna go to, and the people that can afford Medigap

Emily: Like, the sicker you are, the more you need this, and the more people who need it, the more expensive the supplements will be.

Laura Skopec: The risk pool just keeps on worsening.

Emily: So, expect Medicare Advantage to keep growing. And 鈥� as Laura points out 鈥� getting more expensive.

Laura Skopec: The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission says we spend about fourteen percent more for everyone who chooses Medicare Advantage over traditional Medicare, and that was really not the point of the Medicare Advantage program, right? It was supposed to use sort of private sector processes to lower costs in Medicare, and it has not done that. 

Emily: In fact, insurance companies are under increasing scrutiny for overcharging the government for Medicare Advantage. 

The feds have been trying to impose some rules to cut down on those extra profits 鈥� all very technical stuff which we could devote a whole episode to.     

Dan: Maybe we should

Emily: Yeah and crackdown may have played a role in insurance companies pulling some of these plans off the market. And they say they’re gonna keep yanking more plans off the market unless they get MORE federal dollars. 

Laura: They’re saying that their costs are going up for paying claims, which is probably true, and they point to market exits and other issues as, like, we need a pay bump here to stay in the market.

Emily: All of this 鈥� pulling plans off the market, reducing benefits, trying to control who enrolls in their plans 鈥� all of this stuff is likely to keep happening. 

So we should talk about what that looks like on the ground, and how seniors can navigate all these changes. 

Remember Erin in Cambridge, Minnesota? 

What happened to her really exemplifies how this kind of thing can play out. And how we can support each other.

So Erin had gotten kicked off her plan when the whole enterprise behind it, UCare, collapsed.

Erin had been really happy with UCare for the four years she was on one of their Advantage plans.

Erin: You call their customer service and they are very helpful. I loved it.

Emily:  she had access to specialists. 

Erin: A thoracic, a neurologist, a urologist, a nephrology. An ENT specialist. 

Emily: Erin had suffered four heart attacks in her late fifties. Because she couldn’t work, she started getting social security and Medicare early 鈥� when she was 58. She doesn’t really remember how she ended up picking Medicare Advantage over traditional Medicare.

But it was working for her. Until they pulled the rug out from underneath her.

Erin: I did not want them to go anywhere. I heard that, I was just in tears.

I was so mad. I was like, “No. Now what do I do?” And I look at my husband and said, “Now what?” “

Emily: And she says her husband had the answer immediately.

Erin:Well, we’ll just call Desi.”

Emily: We’ll just call Desi.

Dan: Wait a minute鈥�  Who is Desi?

Emily: You gotta meet Desi. 

Desi Panek: I’m Desi Panek, and I work at the Seven County Senior Federation here in Mora, Minnesota.

Emily: That’s a member-led organization of seniors in eastern and central Minnesota who came together to advocate for themselves, and to help each other with transportation and other stuff seniors need. Including: signing up for 鈥� and dealing with 鈥� Medicare. 

I met Desi and her boss Lisa Krahn, the Federation’s director, as they were gearing up for this year’s annual enrollment period. 

Lisa: It can’t be as bad as it was last year 

Emily: Yeah yeah. 

Desi: We’ll find out soon. 

Lisa: Oh, God 

Emily: Yep, hold onto your hat. 

Emily: Yep, they’re still dealing with the fallout from last year. This is Lisa:

Lisa Krahn: Still quite a few people who show up, who are calling now, who don’t realize that they haven’t had a plan all year saying, “I just don’t have anything because my old plan left. Well, I wasn’t really paying attention to the mail they were sending me,” kind of a thing.

Emily: Some of those people only found out when they got a bill in the mail. Or when they tried to pick up a prescription, and had to pay out of pocket cuz they didn’t have a drug plan anymore. 

Luckily, Erin got the news before it was too late. She and her husband called Desi, and Desi helped them enroll in a new Medicare Advantage plan. Which Erin says, isn’t as good. 

Erin: Right now I’ve got $1,700 out of pocket going to a pair of hearing aids

Emily: She’s not a fan of the customer service. And she says she had to stop taking one of her preventative medications because her drug plan changed.

Desi and Lisa are operating very much at ground level helping people like Erin, but they definitely have thoughts about the big picture 鈥揺specially the stark choice between Medicare Advantage and traditional Medicare.

Lisa Krahn: original Medicare is that thing you’ve been waiting your whole life to get. It’s good everywhere. And once you’re in, you’re in. 

Emily: But it’s become too expensive for most people. Meanwhile, Medicare Advantage can really limit people’s access to care.

Lisa Krahn: So, looking for a middle ground between those, it’s, it’s鈥� There, there should be better choices, frankly, instead of such extreme ones.

Desi Panek: Extreme is a really good word for that. I agree. 

Emily: Extreme meaning there’s a big hole in one and there’s too many鈥�

Lisa Krahn: Restrictions on the other. But all the millions we’re dumping into advertising and these private companies, that could have filled the holes on original Medicare a long time ago. And that’s just antithetical to the function and the existence of the insurance industry, which, like the monarchy, maybe we can stop believing in. I’m revealing myself as a single-payer Medicare for All advocate, but we need better Medicare, frankly, you know? It always been shortchanged.

Emily: Dan, speaking of Medicare For All.

Dan: Yeah we really shouldn’t do an episode like this without mentioning it. Especially because it’s been coming up so much in this year’s election season. In Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed won the Democratic Senate primary, and Medicare for All was his number-one pitch.

Abdul El Sayed: Yes, we really can guarantee healthcare in this country. Yes, we really can do it while spending a lot less and getting a lot more if our healthcare doesn’t still fund tens of millions of dollars in healthcare CEO, uh, salaries on top of it.

Emily: People like Lisa 鈥� and Abdul El-Sayed 鈥� think of Medicare for All as a way to also plug the holes in existing Medicare. 

Dan: Well, huh. OK, I mean, one thing I’m really tuning into is that all these big gaps in Medicare are all driven by the fact that ALL of Medicare 鈥� our big public benefit 鈥� is actually set up so it requires insurance companies to make a profit in order for it to function. Whether they’re selling Medicare Advantage plans, or Medigap policies.

But then, how do Medicare for All advocates say that spreading Medicare to everybody makes the math actually work better?

Emily: It’s all about that term Julie Appleby introduced us to:  Risk pool. How “risky” the people you’re insuring 鈥� the pool 鈥� are as a whole. Meaning, how much health care they need on average. The calculations change a lot when the pool is everyone, including people who are 25 as well as 65 and 95 鈥� and when tax money funds health care directly instead of filtering it through private health insurance companies to administer and also take a profit.

In fact, a recent study out of Yale estimates that Medicare For All 鈥� that is a Medicare that is completely void of private insurance companies 鈥�.

Dan: But that’s not just taking insurance companies out of Medicare 鈥� it’s taking them out of the whole U.S. health care system.

Emily: Right. In the meantime, some politicians in Washington are talking about tweaks 鈥� big and small 鈥� to just Medicare itself. 

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders鈥�

Dan: the original Mr. Medicare For All 

Emily: Yeah 鈥� in the meantime, he says we should extend traditional Medicare to cover vision, hearing, and dental. He’s introduced a bill in the Senate to do just that. 

And Oregon Senator Ron Wyden recently introduced a bill that would put an out-of-pocket max on traditional Medicare. That way, people wouldn’t need supplements as much, and Medicare Advantage wouldn’t look as tempting.

Both of those ideas would mean putting more federal money toward traditional Medicare.

Dan: Which doesn’t SEEM like something Congress is likely to do. But what this whole story shows is: it seems like it’s gonna cost us either way. Either we put more public dollars into traditional Medicare, or we keep paying higher prices, collectively and individually,

As for the here and now. If you have Medicare Advantage, but you don’t have a Desi or a Lisa to call, Emily, they gave you a breakdown of what you need to know.

Emily:Yep. Their first piece of advice: open every piece of mail from your insurance company. That’s where you’re going to find out whether your plan is being cancelled. Or where you might find out they’re trying to auto-enroll you into a new plan, which might not be the best one for you.

Desi Panek: The past couple of years we’ve had plans that end a specific plan, but will auto-enroll the e- the enrollee into another plan in the same company.

Lisa Krahn: Crosswalking

Desi Panek: Yes, so that’s a big deal. Pay attention to your mail. Um, you’re gonna get stuck with huge premiums if you just let it roll.

Emily: And find someone to talk to.

Remember Kelli Jo who runs the Medicare hotline for Minnesota? Every single state has one of those agencies. They’re called SHIP 鈥� S H I P 鈥� state health insurance assistance program. Google your state, SHIP, and Medicare

If you can’t get through, there’s always insurance brokers. Desi has some advice on measuring up whether a broker is trustworthy.

Desi Panek: Ask them if they sell every product available to you in your area. That’s one of the biggest things. I think that a lot of people just assume they’re gonna go to a broker or an agent and they’re gonna get the full scope, and that’s not necessarily true.

Emily: You might want someone who sells Medigap supplements as well as Advantage plans. Someone who does that may be less inclined to push you into whatever’s paying them the highest commissions.

Desi Panek: Word of mouth is a big deal for a lot of people, so asking your friends, your neighbors, uh, “Who did you work with? Are you happy? Are you unhappy? What was the experience like?”

Dan: Talking to your friends and neighbors. It’s like, we gotta rely on each other.

Emily: Which is why I’m kind of obsessed with this Senior Federation thing. People banding together to share information and resources to navigate this ongoing mess.

Desi and Lisa’s group has been operating since 1975. There used to be a robust network of similar groups across the state. Theirs is the last one, but Desi says they’re going strong.

Desi Panek: We’ve got our beautiful community and our thrift stores that keep our doors open and allow us to give that good information out, um, whether it’s what people wanna hear or not.

Dan: And it went by kinda fast but I think I heard her say thrift stores?

Emily: Yep! They have a side hustle. 

Lisa Krahn: We run two thrift stores, the One More Time stores, which give us financial independence. So we’re not dependent on just memberships and just counseling fees or service fees. 

Emily: That’s awesome, yeah, I’m dying to go to those thrift stores. I saw it on the website and I was like鈥�

Desi Panek: Did you see that we won Minnesota’s best thrift store?

Emily: Stop it.

Desi Panek: I mean it.  

Emily: That’s so cool. Oh my God. 

Lisa Krahn: By the Minnesota Star Tribune, yes. It was a popularity contest.

Emily: Amazing. Wow.

Dan: Wow for sure. Emily, thank you so much for all of this reporting.

So here’s where we landed: Medicare is way more broken than we knew!  And we already knew it was kind of a confusing mess with a lot of holes. 

Fixing it will require a huge lift.  The kind of thing that hasn’t seemed like a political possibility. And everybody will have BIG differences of opinion about how a fix should work. There are people who think the government shouldn’t be involved in health care at all. 

Meanwhile, we’ve got what we’ve got.  We’ve got each other. 

And鈥� you just never know what might be possible.

Next time on An Arm and a Leg, we’ll hear about what might be the most radical health care experiment since Medicare itself. 

And the two guys 鈥� a Democrat and a Republican 鈥� who made it happen.

Till then, take care of yourself. 

This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by Emily Pisacreta, with help from our summer intern Lynn Barbera and me, Dan Weissmann鈥� and edited by Ellen Weiss. Izabella Kulkarni provided additional production help.

Reporting for this story was supported in part by Arnold Ventures. Listeners like you are our biggest source of support, and we need you more than ever. If you like what you’re hearing and want it to continue, head to arm and a leg show dot com, slash, support.  

Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard.

Our music is by Dave Weiner and Blue Dot Sessions. 

Amanda Boyd is our Operations Manager. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations. 

An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with 吃瓜不打烊. That’s a national newsroom producing in-depth journalism about health issues in America and a core program at KFF, an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism.

Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at 吃瓜不打烊. He’s editorial liaison to this show.

An Arm and a Leg is distributed by KUOW, Seattle’s NPR news station.

And thanks to the Institute for Nonprofit News for serving as our fiscal sponsor.

They allow us to accept tax-exempt donations. You can learn more about INN at INN.org.

Finally, thank you to everybody who supports this show financially. Listeners like you are our biggest source of funding.

You can join in any time at arm and a leg show, dot com, slash: support.

Thanks! And thanks for listening


An Arm and a Leg is a co-production of 吃瓜不打烊 and Public Road Productions.

For more from the team at An Arm and a Leg, subscribe to its weekly newsletter, . You can also follow the show on , , , and . And if you’ve got stories to tell about the healthcare system, the producers would love to .

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And subscribe to An Arm and a Leg on , , , or wherever you listen to podcasts.

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Patient Dies by Suicide After 鈥業nsurance Issue鈥� Delayed Medicine for Lung Disease Flare-Ups /health-industry/insurance-issue-delayed-copd-prescription-breathing-problems-suicide-texas/ Fri, 02 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2290590

If you or someone you know may be experiencing a mental health crisis, contact the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by dialing or texting “988.”

KYLE, Texas 鈥� Kenney Blewett was diagnosed with lung disease more than a decade ago but started experiencing flare-ups this year that made him feel like he couldn’t breathe.

Blewett described those flare-ups as “the scariest thing in the world,” said his wife, Cindy, adding that while the episodes typically lasted no more than a few minutes, they had become more frequent.

On top of that, simple tasks, like taking out the trash, left Blewett winded. He rarely left the house and had recently lost 45 pounds. “That sounds like cancer,” Cindy remembered one of his doctors said. It was clear, she said, that her husband’s poor health, tied to decades of smoking, was getting worse.

That’s why, on June 2, Blewett’s pulmonologist wrote him a prescription for a new medication to improve the terrifying breathing issues caused by chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD. But the prescription wasn’t immediately filled. Two days after that doctor appointment, Blewett received an email from Walgreens explaining that, “due to an insurance issue that we’re working to resolve,” the medication was delayed.

“He was hopeful that it would work,” Cindy said of the drug, two months after her husband’s death. “I wish we had the chance to find out.”

Insurance delays and denials have become an infamous feature of the American healthcare system, with nearly 7 in 10 adults calling them “a major problem,” in a January .

In June 2025, six months after UnitedHealthcare’s CEO was shot in New York, the Trump administration announced a highly publicized industry pledge, signed by dozens of major health insurers, to remove some of the barriers that block or delay patients from accessing doctor-recommended care. And yet that pledge was voluntary, and it carries no penalties if companies fail to comply. Indeed, a report published by 吃瓜不打烊 in July found that some insurers that signed the pledge would not implement all the promised initiatives as originally outlined.

In recent years, lawmakers in most states, including Texas, have attempted to address delays and denials by in the absence of substantial federal reform. But most health insurance plans, including traditional Medicare policies and employer-sponsored offerings, which together cover more than half of all Americans, typically aren’t under state jurisdiction.

Even some medical office staff and pharmacy employees find the patchwork of state and federal insurance rules and regulations confusing, a problem that is poised to become more complicated as artificial intelligence plays a larger role in approving and processing claims.

“It’s just gotten completely out of hand,” said Matt Toresco, CEO of Arch艒, a patient advocacy and consulting company. He argued that patients need more assistance facing insurance hurdles.

The Blewetts’ story illustrates how navigating these complexities remains a herculean task for patients and their caregivers.

Cindy has sought answers from Medicare; Kenney’s private Part D drug plan; his pulmonologist’s office; and Walgreens. She still has questions about who was responsible for the medication delay and how the holdup could have been prevented.

If the COPD flare-up Blewett experienced on the afternoon of Sunday, June 7, could have been avoided, she wondered, would he still have chosen to die by suicide that night?

A photo of a man standing in the woods seen on a laptop.
Kenney Blewett, who was diagnosed with lung disease more than a decade ago, died by suicide in June. The Blewetts celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary earlier this year. (Callie Richmond for 吃瓜不打烊)

鈥楥omplex and Convoluted’

During that first week of June, Cindy said her husband repeatedly asked if his prescription 鈥� a liquid medication meant to be inhaled through the nebulizer machine Kenney owned 鈥� was ready to be picked up from Walgreens.

Cindy said she wasn’t initially surprised or worried by the delay. Since its acquisition by a private equity firm last year, Walgreens has cut thousands of jobs across the country, according to the . Cindy said in August that their Walgreens pharmacy in Kyle seemed to her to have been understaffed for months, and that prescriptions were being filled more slowly.

When Cindy called the pharmacy a few days after Kenney’s appointment to find out more about the insurance delay, she said, a Walgreens employee told her the prescription required prior authorization. Also called preapproval or precertification, prior authorization is a practice widely used by health insurers that requires medical providers to seek permission before their patients may receive covered treatment.

But Cindy didn’t know which of Kenney’s insurers required prior authorization for this medication.

For years, she had helped manage multiple policies on behalf of her husband. Kenney was insured by Medicare parts A and B, the federal health insurance program for people 65 and older or with disabilities. But he also had a private Part D plan to cover drug costs through Wellcare Value Script, as well as a Medicare supplement plan through Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas 鈥� also called a “Medigap” plan 鈥� that paid for other out-of-pocket costs.

Initially, Cindy assumed that Kenney’s Part D plan had invoked prior authorization for his new medication. But because it was a liquid that is inhaled through a nebulizer machine, this drug was one of relatively few covered by Medicare Part B’s , not Part D.

The federal government had no record showing that this prescription had been billed to Kenney’s Part B policy, the Medicare agency told Cindy over the phone, she said.

Sarah Tanner and Myriea Amaya, spokespeople for Centene, Wellcare Value Script’s parent company, would not answer questions for this article.

After Kenney’s death, when Blewett sought clarification at the Walgreens pharmacy, she said the employee “kept saying different things.” She recalled his explaining that the prescription was submitted to Medicare Part B but without a necessary diagnostic code that the doctor should have included.

Carmen Lopez, a spokesperson for Walgreens, told 吃瓜不打烊 in late September that the company “cannot comment on matters involving specific individuals.”

Subsequently, Cindy said, a district pharmacy supervisor for Walgreens reached out by phone, and told her the pharmacy tried to process the prescription through Part B on June 2, the same day as the pulmonologist appointment, but that the prescription was missing a diagnostic code from the physician. The supervisor said Walgreens sent a request for that code to the pulmonologist’s office later that day, Cindy recalled.

Kenney’s pulmonologist 鈥� Rajesh Shetty of LungDocs 鈥� did not respond to phone or email messages from 吃瓜不打烊. But Cindy said an employee at the practice told her they did not see a fax from Walgreens asking for a diagnostic code for the prescription.

Meanwhile, it couldn’t have been an issue with Kenney’s Medigap plan, since prior authorization.

“Short of getting attorneys involved,” Cindy said, “I’m not sure how to find out what really happened.”

Cindy Blewett stands on her porch in front of her home. Foliage and plants from her garden on seen to the left.
Cindy Blewett tried to figure out which of her husband’s insurers required prior authorization for his medication. (Callie Richmond for 吃瓜不打烊)

More Red Tape Ahead

Confusion surrounding these Part B and Part D distinctions is common, said Mike Hess, senior director of advocacy and regulatory affairs at the nonprofit COPD Foundation. “Medicare has gotten to be so complex and convoluted over the years,” he said, that even medical office staff and pharmacy employees often misunderstand the nuances.

And with the introduction of AI to the preapproval process, navigating insurance hurdles will likely get more complex for Medicare beneficiaries, doctors say.

Historically, traditional Medicare, unlike Medicare Advantage, used prior authorization sparingly. But in January, Medicare launched a pilot program in six states 鈥� Arizona, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, and Washington 鈥� testing the use of AI to preapprove some healthcare services.

It is intended to “root out waste in Original Medicare,” CMS Administrator Mehmet Oz has said, but physicians and patients say the program is creating more red tape for Medicare beneficiaries and leading to inappropriate denials. The pilot program does not currently impose prior authorization requirements on COPD medications, but industry experts expect the scope of the initiative will grow to include more services and states.

On the night of June 7, hours after her husband’s last COPD flare-up, Cindy Blewett was sitting on their back porch when she heard a loud noise. She assumed a picture had fallen off the wall in the living room. In fact, it was a gunshot. She discovered Kenney’s body in their bedroom.

“I can’t tell you how horrible it was,” Cindy said.

She said her husband had struggled with his mental health for a long time and had attempted suicide once before, years ago. His deteriorating health only made things worse, she said.

Kenney confirmed that much in a note he left. He told Cindy that she was a wonderful wife, mother, and grandmother but that his health was too poor to continue living.

A photo of a dark blue urn on a black table. A glass goblet is seen behind the urn.
Cindy Blewett keeps an urn of her husband’s ashes. (Callie Richmond for 吃瓜不打烊)

A second COPD medication, which his pulmonologist ordered directly from the drug manufacturer during the June 2 appointment, arrived several weeks after Kenney’s suicide, she said.

“Perhaps, just perhaps,” Cindy said, “if he had received both medications in a timely manner, he would be here today, and we would have had many more years together.”

Do you have an experience with prior authorization you’d like to share? to tell 吃瓜不打烊 your story.

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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Midterms Have Revived Universal Healthcare Debate. These States Are Ahead of Everyone. /elections/single-payer-universal-healthcare-debate-midterms-oregon-proposal/ Fri, 02 Oct 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2290549 Democratic congressional members and candidates are already planning to use any midterm election gains to , including boosting Affordable Care Act subsidies, reversing Medicaid cuts, and lowering the Medicare eligibility age.

But Democratic strongholds across the country 鈥� including Oregon, California, , and 鈥� have more ambitious goals: single-payer, universal healthcare systems.

No state is closer to that goal than Oregon. A panel created by the state legislature in 2023 is slated to send lawmakers its proposal for a universal health plan by Dec. 1. The nine-person seeks to establish, starting in 2032, medical, vision, dental, and mental health benefits for every state resident from cradle to grave 鈥� with no premiums, deductibles, or copayments. Lawmakers could vote on a plan during the 2027 legislative session or refer it to voters as a ballot measure in 2028.

If approved, the state would be the first in the U.S. to implement what’s called a single-payer health coverage system. It could serve as a model for other states 鈥� and potentially the nation.

Proponents of the proposal argue that the public supports universal healthcare more than ever as healthcare spending and complexity grow. patients often delay care due to out-of-pocket costs. And medical debt remains a in the nation.

States have often served as laboratories to test health policies later implemented nationally. The Affordable Care Act was modeled after Massachusetts’ attempt to achieve universal health insurance coverage, once single-payer efforts there stalled. And Canada’s universal healthcare system began with a provincial plan in Saskatchewan.

“In the short to medium term, there is no chance that 鈥楳edicare for All’ can be passed at the national level,” said , a University of North Carolina health policy professor. “That’s where the states come in. A state like Oregon provides a more hospitable political environment and a more realistic path to single-payer reform.”

But advocates of the plan expect a significant fight from healthcare behemoths, including large hospital systems, seeking to sour public opinion on making such widespread changes. are health insurers. The industry’s deep pockets have helped derail myriad universal healthcare efforts at the federal and state levels.

In 2011, the Vermont Legislature voted to implement a universal healthcare plan but, three years later, Democratic Gov. Peter Shumlin, who had campaigned on the promise of single-payer, pulled the plug, citing “potential economic disruption.”

States that took the issue directly to voters have fared no better. Ballot measures in in 2016, in 2002, and in 1994 all failed by large margins.

“The aspirations of progressive reformers usually run smack into sobering political realities,” Oberlander said. “Translating a slogan into a legislative and political reality is a daunting task.”

A man wearing a blazer over a bright red shirt stands in front of a crowd while speaking into a microphone in an outdoor setting.
Valdez Bravo, president of Health Care for All Oregon, speaks at the nonprofit’s annual garden party in Portland on Sept. 12. The state will soon consider a plan for universal health coverage that the state legislature ordered in 2023. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Redirected Healthcare Dollars

Oregon’s proposal seeks to maintain the current level of spending on healthcare by government, business, and consumers with new corporate and personal taxes to replace insurance premiums and other out-of-pocket costs. Those would be combined with federal and state spending to create a single fund from which all hospitals, doctors, and other practitioners would be paid.

Board members said savings from cutting red tape, reducing fraud, and negotiating drug costs should allow the state to provide better benefits to more people.

In , the board estimated that a 30-year-old making $55,000 and purchasing a benchmark silver-level plan through the Affordable Care Act now pays $5,478 a year for insurance premiums in Oregon, but instead could pay $2,331 in taxes under the proposed plan.

Someone making $55,000 a year with coverage through their employer now pays $3,063 in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. Under the draft plan, that person could pay nothing for health services and could see any doctor in the state.

Currently, many employers pay much of the health insurance costs for their workers. The plan seeks to maintain those contributions by establishing a corporate payroll tax for companies whose payrolls exceed $500,000. Their employees could receive a partial tax credit for the taxes their employers pay. As a result, 31% to 60% of Oregonians wouldn’t pay anything for health benefits.

More affluent people, however, could end up paying more than they do now. The exact numbers would depend on how lawmakers set tax rates and payment thresholds.

“What we are proposing is something very different,” said , executive director of the Oregon board. “Everyone contributes based on the amount that they are able to contribute and not based on utilization.”

A man stands at a vendor table outdoors. He has signs, pins, and other information about "Health Care for All Oregon."
A work group created by the state legislature in 2023 is slated to send lawmakers its proposal for a universal health plan by Dec. 1. Lawmakers could vote on the plan as soon as the next legislative session or refer it to a ballot measure in 2028. The nonprofit Health Care for All Oregon hosted a garden party on Sept. 12 ahead of the reveal. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)
Pamphlets with information about "Health Care for All Oregon" are stacked on a red table.
Backers of the universal healthcare coverage plan will try to convince hospitals and health systems that they would benefit from reducing red tape and eliminating unpaid bills. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Messaging Challenge Lies Ahead

The plan’s backers will try to convince hospitals and health systems that they would benefit from reducing red tape and eliminating unpaid bills. Currently, hospitals to bill dozens of public and private health plans, each with its own coverage and billing rules. A single plan covering everyone in the state could streamline the process, saving billions.

Rural hospitals could gain financial stability. They now often struggle to stay afloat because they typically have higher rates of patients who are uninsured or on Medicaid, with its often low reimbursement rates.

Hospitals aren’t so sure.

“The universal health plan proposal preserves much of the broken, fragmented status quo and adds new taxes and complexity that Oregonians can’t afford,” said Becky Hultberg, president and CEO of the . “With federal policy changes looming, we are entering a period of tremendous upheaval. This proposal could destabilize a system that is already struggling.”

Under the proposal, doctors and other practitioners would be paid somewhere between what Medicare pays on the low end and what private insurance pays on the high end. Although total payments to doctors would remain unchanged, rates would be negotiated with physician groups to shift more money into primary care and less into specialty services.

But it is unclear whether doctors would agree that more patient time, fewer administrative hurdles, and no more unpaid bills would be worth a payment structure that could cause specialists to lose out.

A woman with dark, straight black hair tied up in a bun stands for a photo. She has a plastic name tag attached to her shirt that says, "Healthcare for All Oregon / Rebecca Shcoon."
Rebecca Schoon, an associate professor at Pacific University who attended last month’s Health Care for All Oregon garden party, says that communicating what universal healthcare is will be one of the biggest challenges ahead for Oregon’s proposed plan. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

“There’s always winners and losers in designing something like this, and so how to distribute those is the hardest part,” said , an associate health policy professor at Pacific University who is slated to join the Oregon board in January. “But the second-hardest part is, I think, messaging this.”

Courtni Dresser, vice president of government relations for the , said her physicians group shares many of the board’s goals in improving access to care and reducing administrative burdens. But the group has yet to declare its support or opposition to the effort.

Health insurers haven’t formally weighed in on Oregon’s proposal either, but a single-payer system would, in essence, close off Oregon to any private healthcare plans.

“We expect insurance companies to put every ounce of money they can against this idea because our system is broken and they profit from it,” said Collin Stackhouse, communications coordinator for , a consumer group advocating for universal healthcare.

, a former insurance company executive who now works to expose industry influence, said he expects health plans to hammer the Oregon proposal with claims of high taxes, loss of choice, and the specter of “socialized medicine.”

“Most people go year to year without testing the limits of their health insurance policy,” Potter said. “And so, they’re easily scared into thinking that something valuable will be taken away from them, and that they will have something that’s inferior in its place.”

Health insurers argue their health plans help shield consumers from the full impact of rising healthcare costs.

“Americans consistently report strong satisfaction with their health coverage, including more than 180 million covered through work and 36 million who choose Medicare Advantage,” said Chris Bond, a spokesperson for the health insurance . “Policy solutions are needed to rein in the ever-higher prices charged by hospitals and drugmakers and make care more affordable for everyone.”

A man wearing plaid is holding a canned beverage while speaking to another man close beside him. A button is visible on the man in plaid's shirt, it says "Health Care for All Oregon."
Volunteers converse at the Sept. 12 garden party in Portland. Oregon’s legislature created a work group in 2023 to draw up a plan to create universal healthcare in the state. The proposal is due Dec. 1. (Christena Dowsett for 吃瓜不打烊)

Federal Approval Needed

It’s unclear whether Oregon could secure federal approval to redirect Medicare and Medicaid dollars into its universal plan. Backers of the proposal do not expect the Trump administration to be receptive but say it will be years before approval is needed and hope the 2028 presidential election ushers in a more supportive administration. If federal waivers are not secured, Oregon could proceed in stages, starting with the non-Medicare population.

In California, Democratic candidates for governor are not debating whether to implement single-payer but how. New York lawmakers are debating a single-payer bill called the . And in Washington, state legislators have created a commission to design a universal healthcare plan.

The Oregon board has had regular contact with teams working on single-payer proposals in California and Washington, sharing approaches and looking for ways to collaborate, McDonell said.

, an Oregon family physician and a member of Physicians for a National Health Program, said he could envision the other West Coast states joining Oregon in implementing single-payer, much as California, Washington, and Hawai鈥榠 have in to counter changes in federal vaccine recommendations.

“If our four states could do it,” he said, “that would be the momentum we would need to get it nationally.”

吃瓜不打烊 is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at KFF鈥攁n independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 吃瓜不打烊 and is republished here under a .

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The MAHA Metamorphosis /podcast/what-the-health-465-maha-movement-rfk-jr-trump-hhs-spending-october-1-2026/ Thu, 01 Oct 2026 18:50:00 +0000 /?p=2292271&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2292271 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 吃瓜不打烊 Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 吃瓜不打烊’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

The big “Make America Healthy Again” summit at a glitzy Washington, D.C., hotel this week highlighted a split in the movement between moms who want pesticides and artificial ingredients out of their kids’ food and wellness entrepreneurs who want to promote their products to government regulators.

Meanwhile, as the new fiscal year begins, the Trump administration is refusing for the second year in a row to spend hundreds of millions of dollars Congress approved for the Department of Health and Human Services 鈥� and daring lawmakers or the courts to try to do something about it.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 吃瓜不打烊, Shefali Luthra of The 19th, Rachana Pradhan of 吃瓜不打烊, and Rachel Roubein of The Washington Post.

Panelists

Shefali Luthra photo
Shefali Luthra The 19th
Rachana Pradhan photo
Rachana Pradhan 吃瓜不打烊 Read Rachana's stories.
Rachel Roubein photo
Rachel Roubein The Washington Post

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • The transformation of the Make America Healthy Again movement was on display at a MAHA Institute meeting in Washington this week. The gathering featured wellness companies hawking their wares and largely steered clear of the movement’s core issues, such as vaccines and pesticides. Many MAHA adherents have expressed disillusionment with the Trump administration, seeing it as favoring corporate interests over their priorities, and some progressives are starting to make a play for the support of these disaffected activists.
  • The Trump administration is again attempting to cancel some congressionally appropriated health funding via a controversial strategy known as a pocket rescission. The 2026 fiscal year concluded this week, effectively running out the clock for Congress to force the Trump administration to distribute that money 鈥� and with the House already recessed until after the midterm elections.
  • And the Hyde Amendment turned 50 this week. The legislative measure prohibits federal funding from being used to pay for abortions, effectively banning Medicaid funding of pregnancy termination unless states opt to spend their own money to offer that benefit for those who are low-income or disabled.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Aaron Carroll, president and CEO of AcademyHealth, to discuss the Trump administration’s dismantling of the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too: 

Julie Rovner: The New York Times’ “,” by Madaleine Rubin.

Shefali Luthra: The Atlantic’s “,” by Caitlin Dickerson.

Rachana Pradhan: 吃瓜不打烊’ “US Poised To Boot Legal Immigrants From Medicaid, Including Refugees and Sex-Trafficking Victims,” by Phil Galewitz, Andrew Jones, and Claudia Boyd-Barrett.

Rachel Roubein: Stat’s “” by Elaine Chen.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Rachel Roubein.
  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Rachel Roubein.
  • The New York Times’ “,” by Apoorva Mandavilli.
Click to open the transcript Transcript: The MAHA Metamorphosis

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 吃瓜不打烊 and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 吃瓜不打烊. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Oct. 1, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So, here we go. 

Today we are joined via videoconference by Rachel Roubein of The Washington Post. 

Rachel Roubein: Hey, everybody. 

Rovner: Shefali Luthra of The 19th. 

Shefali Luthra: Hello. 

Rovner: And my 吃瓜不打烊 colleague Rachana Pradhan. 

Rachana Pradhan: Hi, Julie. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have my interview with Dr. Aaron Carroll of AcademyHealth about the undoing of the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, AHRQ, where most of the staff has been laid off or retired, and hundreds of grants have been canceled midcycle. But first, this week’s news. 

So we haven’t talked about the Make America Healthy Again movement in a while. It was a big week for MAHA here in Washington, D.C., with a gigantic summit at what used to be the Trump [International] Hotel, down the street from the White House. But it was hardly the event you’d expect if you still think of MAHA as moms who want their kids to have access to healthier food grown with fewer pesticides. Rather, this event featured representatives from health companies with business before the federal government, paying sponsorships of up to $300,000 each to sit on panels with officials from said government to talk about everything from the use of psychedelic drugs to fraud-fighting to wearables and AI [artificial intelligence]. The panel featuring Medicare and Medicaid chief Dr. [Mehmet] Oz was somewhat bizarrely moderated by comedian Russell Brand, who’s awaiting trial on sexual misconduct charges back in England. What was this event supposed to accomplish? 

Roubein: I think you kind of hit the nail on the head in terms of just thinking about the MAHA movement and sort of where it’s going next, because you had some people, more sort of MAHA activists, who were upset that it didn’t talk about some of the core issues of the MAHA base, like vaccines, like pesticides. There have been some influential MAHA activists who’ve been upset at the administration and disillusioned that it hasn’t done more to crack down on pesticide use, etc., have been upset at the Trump administration, and have been saying just weeks before the midterm elections that Republicans may lose some of these votes, and some so-called MAHA moms might sit out the elections. And I don’t think this summit did anything to persuade them to go and vote Republican in the midterms. 

Rovner: Yeah, it did seem, it seemed a great get-together if you wanted to sort of commune with the people who regulate your products, on a public stage. But both the president and Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have felt free of late to talk about vaccines, although obviously not at this summit. But it seems that the issue that had united most of MAHA that we were just talking about, pesticides and ultraprocessed food, have been back-burnered by the White House. Rachel, you wrote a . What happened to the food agenda? 

Roubein: Pretty notably, one of the big potential parts of the food agenda is this petition that was filed by David Kessler. He’s the former head of the FDA [Food and Drug Administration] under both Republican and Democratic administrations. And his petition, essentially 鈥� I talked to food safety experts about it 鈥� could have launched a process that could have forced the industry to reformulate some ultraprocessed foods eventually. So that could have been a big deal. The status of it: It was filed August 2025, and Kennedy earlier this year had done a response to it, where he wanted to have food companies produce any detailed safety studies showing that certain ingredients common in ultraprocessed foods are generally safe. And what I had heard from talking to people is that that potential push had been slow-walked at the White House. I obtained a March draft of the letter that Kennedy sent to the White House for review. Now, HHS pushed back on the assertion that it was slow-walked, but this isn’t the first time that administration officials had wanted to and planned to announce something. They had been working on a definition of ultraprocessed foods that they wanted to release back in August, and that was delayed at the last minute, them just putting out more information about this draft definition. 

Rovner: I feel like there’s this tension between the MAHA movement, which started as a grassroots movement to crack down on corporate power, and the White House is sort of wanting to deregulate everything. Those two things seem to be kind of at loggerheads, and it looks for now like the corporations are winning. We saw this with the pesticides earlier in the year, with glyphosate, that the agricultural community fought back and said, You can’t make us stop using it, because we need it to produce food. And now it seems that the food producers are saying: You have a deregulatory agenda. Why are you talking about regulating us more? Is that, am I reading this right that the corporate power is winning, at least so far? 

Pradhan: It’s still a Republican administration, right? Regardless of Secretary Kennedy’s sort of mandate and passions, he’s still working with and for people who do not like to use government to restrict or regulate or ban things. Even, if you think about, we’ve come a long way since this point. But when former first lady Michelle Obama tried to put healthier foods in schools, she was roundly criticized for embodying a nanny state and all these things. And now, the political winds have shifted. But I still think to go up against the party’s kind of traditional views on regulating business and corporate interests, it’s a swamp. What are you going to do? They’re not going to want to regulate a lot. And like you said, Julie, there are ample actions to date that show that there isn’t necessarily a desire to impose more regulations. It’s also an election year. They may not want to antagonize corporate interests when you’re trying to not see huge losses, especially in potentially the House and maybe even the Senate. 

Rovner: Yeah, they have enough people who are mad at them. They don’t want to add to it. 

Pradhan: Exactly. 

Rovner: Well, of course, with every political split comes a new political opportunity. In Michigan, Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed, who’s a prominent supporter of “Medicare for All,” is now trying to grab back some of those Democrats who gravitated to MAHA by unveiling something he’s calling the “Building a Healthier America” agenda, focusing on fewer pesticides, cleaner water, and healthier food. Rachel, you . Might it work? Might Democrats be able to sort of reclaim some of these people who drifted to the Republicans along with RFK Jr.? 

Roubein: I think it’s something that particularly some progressive Democrats are looking to, and they might look to do if they win back the House. In the Farm Bill, you saw Republicans and 鈥� some Republicans 鈥� and Democrats push back against giving pesticide makers immunity liability shields. But I think it remains an open question. And I think it also depends on the different groups, in terms of MAHA. Tony Lyons at MAHA Action has said that they want there to be an alliance with Republicans. But you also see this with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez trying to court some MAHA activists her way. So I think it’s an open question in terms of how this movement unfolds and whether there are any deviations towards the left. But it is a hard sell in some ways. Vaccines are a big part of a lot of people in the MAHA base. And when I asked El-Sayed about this, he said they’re, like, We’re going to agree to disagree on vaccines. 

Rovner: Yeah, he’s trained as a doctor and he does believe in vaccines. And he was the head of public health at the city of Detroit. He’s definitely not with the anti-vaccine types. But it’s important to remember that the original anti-vax movement was a combination of people from the far right and from the far left. So there have always been a lot of Democrats in the anti-vax movement, and this has been a group that’s been kind of up for grabs. And we will, I guess we’ll see how it will all shake out. 

Roubein: And some of the things on food Sen. Bernie Sanders has said for a long time, too. So there has always sort of been some of that intersection on certain issues. 

Rovner: Yeah. Well, originally RFK Jr. was running as a Democrat before he took up with the Trump team. All right. Moving on. Today is Oct. 1, the start of the fiscal year. Happy FY 2027, everyone. The Trump administration marked the day a little early, informing Congress last Friday that it was declining to spend more than $800 billion, in what’s called a pocket rescission. That’s when an administration declines to spend money appropriated by Congress so close to the end of the fiscal year that it basically can’t be spent at all and Congress doesn’t have time to disapprove it. The majority of this funding is from HHS, largely for programs to help noncitizens and for what the administration calls, quote, “overfunded and unaligned” HHS research programs. That includes many related to minority health. Congressional spending leaders, including Senate Appropriations Chair Susan Collins of Maine, complained that pocket rescissions are illegal under a law called the Impoundment Control Act, and the Government Accountability Office issued an opinion this week backing that claim up. But, as we know, this administration likes to dare courts to stop it from doing things that just about everybody else acknowledges is illegal. And I guess that’s where we are here? 

Luthra: No, I was just thinking, right? It’s October. Everything that happens now, we also think about in the context of an election, and I think a dynamic that we have talked about a lot is this effort by the administration to just sort of do what it would like to do with funding, even when many people might say that is not how the laws and separation of powers are supposed to work. And I think something really interesting for us to consider is whether those dynamics do, in fact, change in the new year. Given what Rachana mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that Democrats control both chambers of Congress, not just one. And [does] that possibility of conflict with another branch in Washington change what behavior we see from the White House? I think that’s a really interesting question and something that we should be thinking about as the election gets closer, and then again depending on what the results end up being. 

Rovner: Yeah, one of the really weedy issues here is who gets to sue the administration to say that, Hey, you’re not allowed to not spend money that we’ve appropriated. It was important that they came out and said that this was illegal, because the GAO, under the law, has standing to sue. But they don’t have a confirmed leader at this point, and Susan Collins was asked about this and said they may be a little bit wary to kind of get out in front of Congress. But I think it’s probably fair to say that if Democrats take back the House and Senate, that they would be more likely to want to either 鈥� I think that the Congress itself can sue the administration, can go to court and say, Hey, you can’t do this, which obviously the Republican Congress hasn’t wanted to do. But a Democratic Congress might. 

Pradhan: What 鈥� has GAO ever been known to sue? 

Rovner: That’s a good question. I can’t remember. We’ve had fights about rescissions before. 

Pradhan: Yeah. 

Rovner: But it’s 鈥� Russell Vought, the head of the White House Office of Management and Budget, says publicly that he thinks that the Impoundment Control Act is unconstitutional and therefore they don’t have to obey it. That’s clearly something for a court to determine. That’s clearly something for the Supreme Court to determine. We haven’t gotten there yet, but most of the time, I think, we’ve had lower courts that have warned the administration: Um, hey, there’s this law that says you can’t do that. You have to spend money the way Congress says you should spend money. The last time we had a pocket rescission, I looked it up, was last year when this administration did the same thing. That was the USAID [U.S. Agency for International Development] money. So before that, I’m not sure when. I may go back and have a look. Shefali, to your point, that was my next question anyway. It’s like, I would think that the one thing that is likely to change if the Democrats take Congress 鈥� obviously, we have two more years of the Trump administration 鈥� but I would think they would be a lot more zealous in guarding their spending power than this Congress has been. 

Luthra: One would imagine. It seems hard to abdicate the power that one might want. That’s how separation of powers, in theory, is supposed to work. 

Rovner: And it is kind of written into the Constitution. 

Pradhan: I do wonder, though, if they think that, if they wouldn’t get a good, friendly decision from a court 鈥� 

Rovner: The Supreme Court. Yeah. 

Pradhan: Yeah. That could be far more damaging in the long term, right? 

Rovner: Yes. There is the concern that the Supreme Court would agree with Russell Vought that the Impoundment Control Act 鈥� 

Pradhan: Right. 

Rovner: 鈥� is unconstitutional. That is a risk that they would run. 

Pradhan: Right. 

Rovner: Well, that will happen. We will see what happens with that. All right. So, obviously these latest cuts aren’t the only ones to HHS that have been made since [President Donald] Trump returned to office in 2025. We will talk more about what’s happened at the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality in this week’s interview, but I want to talk a little bit right now about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, whose workforce we now know is down by almost a third, according to . Quote: “The changes have hindered the C.D.C.’s ability to respond to outbreaks as measles spreads at home and Ebola abroad,” while, quote, “entire divisions have been shuttered, including teams that worked on smoking, sexual violence, child abuse and falls among older adults.” Separately, but not really separately, the CDC’s advisory committee on vaccine practices has ground to a halt after a judge struck down Kennedy’s replacement members as unqualified. Medical societies have stepped in with their own vaccine recommendations for this fall, but the official CDC guidance is already out of date because there’s no ACIP [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] to make recommendations. This is all going to come home to roost the next time we have a bad flu season, I imagine. 

Pradhan: Yeah, I think that the Times, the New York Times, story, what I thought was really, kind of what they led with, was that even though last year you had these widespread firings across HHS and different agencies, including the CDC 鈥� the CDC at that time we know lost about 1 in 5 workers 鈥� but really the true scale of the losses is much higher. It’s about 30% fewer employees. But the CDC has really had a rough go of it. I think it probably was the 鈥� it was the poster child for everything that went wrong during the pandemic, in Republicans’ view. And so they’ve been very keen on dismantling a lot of that agency, more so than the FDA and more so than the NIH [National Institutes of Health], for example, even though they’ve also seen a lot of staff reductions. But CDC, I think, has been so crippled for so long, both because of the staff reductions and just the awful morale at the agency because of everything that the current political leadership has done since. Yeah. 

Rovner: I would say, and the politicization of its leadership, things that were long run by career scientists in Democratic and Republican administrations that are now being run by political appointees, who are rather pointedly not scientists 鈥� 

Pradhan: Yeah. 

Rovner: 鈥� running this very scientifically driven agency. And of course we’ve had a fifth measles death in Pennsylvania now, that apparently the CDC is still not acknowledging the measles deaths in Pennsylvania. So there are still a lot of questions. The CDC does have, unlike several of the other HHS agencies, does have a Senate-confirmed leader. But so far, we haven’t heard very much from her. I guess we are all still sort of waiting to see what happens, but in the meantime, I can just imagine if we have a bad flu season or some other respiratory ailment that could have been prevented if CDC had been up to date with its vaccine recommendations, things could get rather loud and nasty later this winter. 

Roubein: Some of the vaccine recommendations, some of this is very much tied into the lawsuit, just like the high-level ACIP not putting more vaccine recommendations out. And this part has had somewhat of a snowball effect, like the Vaccines for Children Program, giving out free vaccines to uninsured, underinsured kids, that was held up for about a month. That is now going through, but they had to kind of work through: What are the recommendations going to be? And they ended up going with prior recommendations because there is not an ACIP to meet. So some of this has been tied up in legal limbo. And yeah, on the measles deaths, CDC is now acknowledging two out of the five that Pennsylvania has reported. 

Rovner: There we go. We’re finally hearing something. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We will be right back. 

Turning to reproductive health, the Hyde Amendment 鈥� that’s the annual appropriations rider that bars federal funding for abortion in most cases 鈥� turns 50 this week, which, as one abortion rights group pointed out, means that the ban itself has now been in effect longer than Roe v. Wade was in force. Shefali, what’s been the impact of the Hyde Amendment on the ground? What does it actually mean for people who are seeking reproductive care? 

Luthra: It’s a bit more complicated than I think people might initially realize. The Hyde Amendment prohibits the use of federal funds to pay for abortion 鈥� functionally, Medicaid. And so Medicaid programs are jointly funded by state governments and federal governments. If you are in a state where the state government does not want to put money into paying for Medicaid coverage of abortion, your abortion will not be covered, especially if you are low-income. Most people who get abortions are people who cannot afford another child. They are parents already. They are largely people who are low-income and rely on something like Medicaid. However, there are states, the Californias, etc., of the world, that have made a point of putting state funds into their Medicaid programs. So in some states, you can get Medicaid to cover your abortion. That’s really helpful. It makes this procedure much more affordable. It can cost hundreds of dollars, sometimes a lot more, depending on where you are in your pregnancy, to get an abortion. But, of course, the fact that this has existed for so long has absolutely made it harder for people, often those who are most financially vulnerable, to get abortions. What you often hear from those patients, though, when I speak to them, is, like, This is something I really can’t afford right now, but I will pay for it anyway because I really can’t afford another child. I think the Hyde Amendment is really striking in that it makes this thing much harder to get. But for a lot of people, it doesn’t necessarily stop them from getting it, because it is just so important to them. 

Rovner: It’s ironic that something that has to, literally Congress has to pass every year 鈥� it is a rider on a spending bill. Democrats have tried various ways to get rid of it, always failed. Even when we had a Congress that supported abortion rights, they could not get this out. It is just sort of part of the landscape now, isn’t it? 

Luthra: And part of it is, I think, demonstrative of one of the more effective anti-abortion lines a lot of Republicans have. Abortion public opinion is very complicated. And people support abortion rights in the abstract, but when you get into more specifics, their views become more complicated. And one framing a lot of the GOP has really found success with is saying, We don’t support taxpayer funding of abortion. And that really works because people will hear that and they say: Oh, well, that sounds very extreme. I support this for other people, but, like, my tax dollars, they can’t fund that. And that is the line that has been used to keep Medicaid from paying for abortions, to keep the Hyde Amendment intact, and to keep other federal programs as well from making this more available. And I think it’s perhaps more politically complicated than first blush at abortion polling data might suggest to undo something like this, 

Rovner: I absolutely agree. Well, still, anti-abortion forces remain intent on cutting off the main remaining source of access to abortion, the abortion pill mifepristone. This week, the attorneys general of Louisiana, Alabama, and Arkansas filed suit in federal district court 鈥� not at the Supreme Court, which the group’s press release says 鈥� to strike down the shield laws in New York, Massachusetts, and California. Those are the laws that enable doctors in those states to provide telehealth appointments to people in ban states seeking to terminate their pregnancies. Shefali, there’s already a lawsuit on mifepristone making its way through the courts, and it’s from Louisiana. How is this one different? 

Luthra: This one is different because it specifically goes after shield laws and it challenges their constitutionality. That is a different argument. It is more sweeping. It could be the thing that finally gets the Supreme Court to weigh in on this issue. Right? It’s a very, very big legal question, something that constitutional scholars have believed, since the enactment of shield laws will ultimately be settled by the Supreme Court. However, I think it’s really important for us to take this suit with context. As you mentioned, there are so many cases making their way through the courts right now around how people get abortions, the provision of mifepristone, shield laws, etc., etc. We don’t know which one will end up at the Supreme Court. We don’t know how courts will rule. This is just one more quiver in the bow that abortion opponents are trying to use to stop this telehealth model that has found quite a bit of success. We will see which one lands. It very well could be this one, but, at this point, we just don’t know. 

Rovner: Yeah, and I should point out that the other Louisiana case is about FDA and its approval of mifepristone to be prescribed via telehealth. So, and of course, we’re also waiting for the administration to do, to finish its FDA safety review, which we expect to see sometime after the election. Speaking of which, abortion is not quite the high-profile electoral issue this year that it was in 2024, but there’s still several abortion-related ballot initiatives to be voted on this year. Shefali, any that you’re watching particularly closely? Or any of the others of you? 

Luthra: I am personally very interested in the Idaho measure and the Missouri one. I spent a bit of time in both of those states learning about what’s happening there over the past month. I think it’s really fascinating. In Missouri, it’s a very strange case. Two years ago, voters amended their constitution and said, We will protect abortion rights. Abortion is now legal in Missouri, a state run by very, very anti-abortion lawmakers. Those same lawmakers were horrified by this finding, and so they have put forth a new ballot measure that would overturn the 2024 result, and it would amend the state constitution to ban abortion. And if that passes, Missouri’s constitution would be the only state constitution to explicitly ban abortion. That’s a really big deal. If this passes, it could set an example to other states where voters have said, We support abortion rights and lawmakers have felt very frustrated by that. Polling right now is a very even split. There is a lot of money. We will see what happens. But I think this is a really interesting case for us to be following. 

Rovner: And it’s super confusing because they just voted on this. 

Luthra: It’s so confusing. And it’s called Amendment 3. If you look at two years ago, the abortion rights measure was also called Amendment 3, and so you might be like: Well, I just voted on Amendment 3. I voted for it. I should vote for it again. And in fact, that would be the opposite. And I’ve spoken to people 鈥� 

Pradhan: That’s very confusing. That’s very confusing. How are people supposed to keep up with all this? I can barely keep up with it. 

Luthra: How are they supposed to keep up with all of it? That’s such a good question. 

Pradhan: It’s a lot. 

Luthra: But no, and I’ve spoken to people who work in politics in the area, and they had no idea this was even on the ballot. And I was like, That’s also really striking that abortion has faded from a lot of the political consciousness. But actually there’s this measure that could have really sweeping consequences and really inspire similar action in other states. And the Idaho measure, I think, also very interesting. That would actually not amend the constitution. It would just pass a law that would overturn Idaho’s very, very strict abortion ban, which has sparked all these headlines 鈥� women being airlifted to Utah for medical emergencies, doctors leaving, labor and delivery wards shutting down because the law is so strict there. It’s really an open question, but there is some polling that suggests that this could pass. They have gotten a lot of support from Democrats, but also independents, also Republicans. A lot of people in Idaho who were never really politically engaged very deeply are, because this abortion ban has been so sweeping, affected so many of them so personally. If it passes, the legislature could vote to overturn it, and we’ve seen that happen in states around the country. But I think we don’t know, A) if it will pass and, B) if it did how lawmakers might react. There’s a real chance 鈥� right? 鈥� that they are just so surprised that this happens that maybe you do reconsider the politics of instituting an abortion ban when voters rejected one. But absolutely worth following and seeing what happens in this case, for political reasons but also because a lot of people’s lives could be really, really fundamentally changed as a result of it. 

Roubein: Missouri sounds like such an interesting test case, because I remember back in 2022, after the Supreme Court decision, abortion rights groups were really grasping for a strategy, so they were throwing a bunch of different things at the wall, lawsuits, and then they tried the ballot measures, and it just seemed to work and take off steam. So that’s pretty interesting. 

Rovner: Yeah, and of course, as you pointed out, Missouri has some of the most strident anti-abortion lawmakers in Congress. Josh Hawley, the senator whose wife is one of the lawyers for the anti-abortion, for the main anti-abortion legal group. So Missouri is one of those states that’s got all of the poles represented, and we will have to see how that all comes out. 

Pradhan: Can I make one last addendum on the abortion thing, which is because I’m a Virginia resident? Actually, I was talking to my husband the other day. I said, “Oh, this is how you know that Democrats are in charge,” or we have a relatively new Democratic governor. So now there’s a proposed constitutional amendment on the ballot to amend the state constitution to codify abortion being legal until 28 weeks, so basically through the first two trimesters. Which, you know, Virginia is interesting. I’m biased because I live here, but it’s, of course, trended blue with many prior elections, like leading up to now. But parts of the state are very, very conservative. 

Rovner: Yeah, Virginia is still the South in a lot of ways. 

Pradhan: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it doesn’t take you long to figure that out once you leave the D.C. area, and there’s a lot of religious-based opposition to abortion. So I’m not sure how it’ll do, whether people will support it or not. 

Rovner: I’m curious whether 鈥� if we really are looking at a blue wave, and we certainly see a lot of Democrats in unlikely states who seem to have at least a chance of getting elected because of the frustration, mostly with the economy 鈥� whether that will bring along some of these other issues in a way that it might not have. Because, as we say all the time, midterms are about turnout, and it looks like the motivated voters this time are bluer than redder. But I guess that’s another thing that we will have to wait and see. 

All right, that is this week’s news. Now we’ll play my interview with Aaron Carroll of AcademyHealth, and then we will come back and do our extra credits.  

I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast Dr. Aaron Carroll, president and CEO of AcademyHealth, which supports the health services research community. Aaron Carroll, thank you so much for being here. 

Aaron Carroll: Always a pleasure. 

Rovner: So I’ve asked you here to talk about the Trump administration’s effective dismantling of the Agency for Healthcare Quality and Research, which even many of our very nerdy listeners might not have heard of. But first, tell us what health services research is and how it differs from the biomedical research that most people are more familiar with. 

Carroll: I think everybody really gets what we might call discovery research, which is about learning new things at a cellular, molecular, you know, body level 鈥� the creation of drugs, the creation of new procedures. You know, everybody sort of understands why we need to do that. But that’s only part of the problem. The bigger problem is how do we actually get that to where people are? So health services research focuses on: How do we improve the access, the quality, and the cost of a healthcare system? Another way I like to think about it is that everything that people hate about healthcare is what health services research focuses on. It costs too much? Yeah, that’s health services research. You can’t get in to see the clinician you want? Wait times are too long? That’s health services research. You feel like you’re not getting the quality that you should, or you’re worried that you know chronic diseases on 鈥�? That’s health services research. We spend very little time and very little money, unfortunately, on that type of research. But it’s just as important as discovery research, and I think that one of the reasons why we continue to be so dissatisfied with the healthcare system is because we’re not committed to studying and improving those things in the same way we are discovery. 

Rovner: So how does AHRQ facilitate that, or how has AHRQ facilitated that? 

Carroll: Sure. So, I mean, some of it is by creating and maintaining some of the big databases that people use to study the healthcare system, things like MEPS or other related databases. 

Rovner: MEPS is the Medical Expenditures 鈥� 

Carroll: Medical Expenditure Panel Survey. Yes, but I think the bigger way is that they give out independent investigator grants the same way that the NIH does. It just focuses more on health services research, and sometimes they have, you know, different areas that they choose to focus on, depending on the administration, because every administration should get to set priorities or, you know, decide what they think are most important. But they usually give out lots of grants, and I’ve had some over my career, that allow you to do all kinds of research to try to examine how you might improve the way that people receive care or pay for care or get care. 

Rovner: And some of that research has actually created improvements in the healthcare system, is that fair to say?  

Carroll: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the reason that, like, we landed on, say, $35 for insulin is because of health services research. It’s because of research that was done that found that that was sort of the inflection point. That when out-of-pocket costs got above that amount, people stopped taking their insulin as they should. And I understand the need for some copays 鈥� and obviously, we have a healthcare system. 鈥� But it’s, like, finding that kind of stuff out is health services research. And, you know, even some of the grants that were canceled this year would make sense to any, everyday Americans. Like, how do we improve the way that hospitals use antibiotics so we get less resistance, or how do we improve care using telehealth so that kids can get better asthma care or autism diagnoses? These are not discoveries in the sense of new medications, but they are things that we need to learn how to do to make the healthcare system work for everyone. 

Rovner: So I actually covered the creation of not just AHRQ, but of its predecessor agency, the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research, way back in 1989, when I was a baby healthcare reporter. It was not just a bipartisan agency. Its creation was spearheaded by Republicans who wanted to know, basically, which medical interventions worked and whether the U.S. was getting its money’s worth on medical procedures. The reinvention of the agency 10 years later was led by Sen. Bill Frist, a Republican former transplant surgeon who later served as the Senate’s majority leader. So, how did the Trump administration come to view this agency as so “woke” that it basically needed to be disassembled? 

Carroll: I don’t know. And again, if you don’t like the research priorities, it is perfectly reasonable for an administration to say, Let’s change them. And if they decided they wanted to focus on cost, OK. If they decided they wanted to focus on access, OK. There’s so many different ways to do this, but what they’ve done instead is apparently cancel a ton of grants that were already ongoing 鈥� and I’d be happy to talk about more specifics about that 鈥� but also they just are not spending the money. In fiscal year 2025, there was a significant amount of money that wasn’t spent. Many believe that’s an illegal impoundment, and there’s a case working its way through the courts right now, led by the Society for General Internal Medicine and Public Citizen, and they actually folded in some of the cancellation grants. But in fiscal year 2026, almost no money has been given out for new grants. Today, as we’re taping this, it is the last day of the fiscal year. I have no idea how possibly they’re going to spend the $345 million that was appropriated in 2026. A lot of that is not going to go out the door. In answer to that, they have said that 97% is being on track to be spent. I don’t know how that’s possible. And it’s very, very likely, again, we’re going to see a ton of money unspent, and I imagine lawsuits and more yelling will follow. 

Rovner: So, Congress appropriated this money. The president signed the appropriations bill. What can Congress do, and why isn’t Congress doing something? 

Carroll: So I ask those same questions every day. I don’t understand how Congress is not out of its mind. I mean, this is not something, again, from the “woke” Biden administration. This is this Congress, this House, this Senate passed a budget in a bipartisan manner, that was then signed by the president of the United States 鈥� this president 鈥� into law. The money’s been appropriated. 鈥� In fact, there was specific language in the budget that required HHS to staff up to make sure that they could spend this money. They have not staffed up. They have not spent the money. I don’t know how Congress is not losing their minds. It is an absolute ignoring the law. It is absolutely ignoring Congress’ will. I know there’s a GAO investigation. I know questions have been asked, and I don’t think answers have been given. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don’t know, again, why Congress isn’t screaming and yelling and taking action. Now, what action should they take? Hearings, oversight, make sure that all of this happens. Haul people in to session and find out why are they not following the law, and force the executive branch, as the legislative branch should do, as an equal part of our government, to follow the law. 

Rovner: And it’s not just the grants. I mean, most of the staff has now been basically terminated. 

Carroll: Yeah. Well, that’s what I mean. And there are now minimum staffing requirements in the law, and those are not being followed. I mean, depending upon whose estimates you believe, somewhere between 75% and 90% of AHRQ staff have either been let go or have left the organization. We can’t get exact numbers because they won’t release them. But there aren’t enough people even to process or put the money out the door. Even if they decided today we’ve got to get all the money, it’s not possible. There just aren’t people there to fill out the forms, check the budgets, do all the due diligence, administer the grants, oversee it. There’s no one there, and it’s an absolute abdication of their responsibility to enact the budget and the law as Congress has appropriated and put forth. 

Rovner: Last question: What would it mean 鈥� I mean, what would the loss, basically, of what AHRQ has been doing for these last 26 years mean 鈥� to the healthcare system and how it runs? 

Carroll: I mean, we spend $40-some billion a year on the NIH 鈥� I think about $47 billion. AHRQ, again, is $345 million. So we have been massively underspending on sort of what I would call “delivery” research on how the healthcare system works. And it’s one of the reasons why Americans are getting angrier and angrier every year because they’re, like, Why won’t things get better? Well, we’re not funding it enough. We’re not doing enough. And then, what little we were doing, they canceled in July and refused to spend now. So, what’ll happen? We will remain just as angry, if not angrier, about how much we’re paying for healthcare. We will remain just as angry, if not angrier, about how we can’t get what we need, and we’ll remain just as angry, if not angrier, about the fact that we can spend all this money that we do, $5 trillion-plus, and still feel like we’re not getting the quality, and continue to complain about how unhealthy we all are. AHRQ is the solution to a lot of these problems, and, for some reason, we just won’t use it. 

Rovner: Aaron Carroll, we will stay on top of this. We will revisit it. I promise. 

Carroll: I’m glad to hear that. 

Rovner: Thank you. 

Carroll: Thank you. 

Rovner: OK, we’re back. Now it’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Rachel, why don’t you go first this week? 

Roubein: My extra credit is headlined “” It was in Stat by Elaine Chen. I thought it was a really fascinating story because we’ve all seen the cultural shift toward GLP-1s, and we’ve all heard the drugs praised as a way to address obesity as a medical issue. But Elaine reports that the drugs are now being increasingly marketed as a way to look and feel better. I thought there were some notable examples. The story explored how Novo Nordisk, which is one of the drugs’ makers, has particularly leaned into the shift. For instance, the company had advertisements this summer with slogans that include “live lighter” and “a summer glow-up.” And instead of labeling the drug as a drug for weight management, it sometimes is referring to it as a weight loss drug. And Elaine talked to some doctors and patient advocates that think the drug’s being talked about more as a retail product, run against the industry’s sort of initial goals of trying to convince the greater public that obesity is a disease and that the drug should be covered by insurance. For Novo Nordisk’s part, a spokeswoman told Elaine that how people expect to access and experience care has changed in recent years, and the company recognizes that healthcare needs to become more responsive, relevant, and easier to fit into everyday life. 

Rovner: I would just note, and it’s a very good story, that if the drugmakers lowered the price of the drugs, it would be easier to get it covered by insurance. But that’s just an aside. Shefali. 

Luthra: My story is from The Atlantic by Caitlin Dickerson. The headline is “.” It’s a great story. It is about when parents are deported without their children, what happens to those children? This is the kind of reporting that is really hard to do because you have to spend time with children who have lost their parents. But I think it’s really important, especially as we see this uptick in detaining and deporting, in particular, people with children. I’ve spoken to a lot of mothers who have been deported when they had children here, and the consequences will last probably people’s whole lives. There are health consequences, especially when you have young children. There is PTSD, and I think Caitlin Dickerson has done some of the best reporting on immigration in the past decade, maybe longer. And this is absolutely an essential addition to that canon. 

Rovner: It is indeed. Rachana. 

Pradhan: My story is a trifecta from my colleagues Phil Galewitz, Andrew Jones, and Claudia Boyd-Barrett, who wrote a story about, as of today, hundreds of thousands likely of immigrants who are lawfully present in the United States but who have low incomes are now no longer eligible for Medicaid. This is part of President Trump’s signature One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which will enact greater coverage reductions next year, starting in 2027. But this group of people is now no longer eligible for Medicaid. It includes refugees, some people who have been granted asylum, and also, you know, victims of domestic violence and/or human trafficking. So the story gets into how we have our beloved Congressional Budget Office here in Washington that sort of estimates the impacts of tons of legislation. And they estimated previously that about 100,000 immigrants would be uninsured by 2034 because of this provision. But based on figures that my three colleagues got from state governments or state Medicaid agencies, the figure is likely to be higher of the numbers of immigrants with legal status who are going to now not be able to receive Medicaid. So yeah. So it’s a great read, and I know Julie will put the link in the podcast and in the comments. 

Rovner: I will indeed. Yes, there’s the continuing, you know, “immigration is a health issue, too” theme that we have this week. All right, my extra credit is actually an update to an extra credit from last month. Like last month’s story, it’s from The New York Times, and it’s called “,” by Madaleine Rubin. And it seems that my alma mater 鈥� also, full disclosure, the alma mater of my editor and several of our panelists 鈥� has rethought the idea of letting incoming freshmen complete their first semester without letter grades to ease them into college life. According to a statement from interim university president Domenico Grasso, there was concern that students would be, quote, “unfairly portrayed as coddled or unprepared for the demands of a rigorous Michigan education.” Yeah, I would add that a lot of the backlash came from my fellow alums, and that even though I attended Michigan well back in the 20th century, even in the olden days, we had the option to take classes pass/fail if we wanted to. Although I would note that under the original proposal here, the students wouldn’t have failed, but they would either have gotten a pass or a “no credit.” Good job rethinking this, guys, and Go Blue. 

OK, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts 鈥� as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X , or on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging about these days? Shefali. 

Luthra: I guess I’m on Bluesky , but you can also email me. 

Rovner: There you go. Rachana. 

Pradhan: @rachanadpradhan, both on and on , and you can always email me at RachanaP@kff.org. 

Rovner: Rachel. 

Roubein: Yes. X: ; Bluesky: ; and Signal is always good too: RachelRoubein.28. 

Rovner: Great. Thank you all. We will be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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Drugs Are Widely Used To Sedate Dementia Patients. Her Sons Wanted To Keep Her Off Them. /aging/dementia-drugs-antipsychotic-dangers-memory-care-seniors-alzheimers-michigan/ Wed, 30 Sep 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2287893 In December 2024, Marjorie Tingley’s adult sons received an urgent email from the dementia care unit at Vista Grande Villa, a Michigan senior living community. They were told that their 85-year-old mother was a major safety threat.

On at least 10 days in the previous month, Tingley had hit, kicked, or elbowed aides when they were trying to help her change her briefs, get dressed, bathe, or go to the bathroom, according to Vista Grande behavior logs. Vista Grande wanted permission to sedate her.

Into the new year, Tingley’s sons and Vista Grande fiercely wrangled over one of the most contentious topics in long-term care: the use of antipsychotic medications to pacify agitated people with dementia. The medications come with risks: The Food and Drug Administration requires pharmaceutical companies to warn that these potent drugs increase the chance of death in older people with Alzheimer’s and similar diseases.

More than have a diagnosis of dementia. Despite a 14-year campaign by the federal government to reduce the use of psychotropics, 1 in 4 Medicare beneficiaries with dementia are potentially inappropriately prescribed antipsychotics and other brain-altering medications that can cause delirium, falls, and hospitalizations, a estimated.

While some families and guardians agree that the benefits of these drugs outweigh the risks, those with misgivings confront a wrenching choice: consent to drugging loved ones or risk eviction from a long-term care facility.

As the Tingleys alternately acquiesced to and resisted Vista Grande’s insistence on medication, administrators started calling 911 after altercations, according to ambulance and police dispatch records. Tingley was repeatedly taken to the emergency room for assessment, hospital records show.

After four trips, Vista Grande gave Tingley a 30-day eviction notice, and it sent her to the hospital four more times while the family was arranging a new placement, medical records show.

“I want her out of here,” a flustered administrator told an ambulance crew, one entry shows.

A senior woman in a stretcher is loaded into an ambulance.
Marjorie Tingley was taken to an emergency room eight times after a series of incidents in which she exhibited aggressive behavior at her memory care facility, according to medical and facility records. A pending lawsuit by her family alleges Vista Grande Villa, the senior living center in Michigan, initiated the ER trips in retaliation for disagreements with the family about Tingley’s care. Vista Grande and its director have denied the allegations. (David Tingley)

Tingley died at another facility in January 2025. The cause was plaque buildup in her brain, a , a degenerative brain disease and the most common type of dementia.

“They just wanted to have her drugged up,” David Tingley, one of her five sons, said about Vista Grande in an interview. “It’s a lot easier to take care of someone who’s just out of it.”

Her sons’ lawsuit against Vista Grande and its director at the time accused them of negligence, causing emotional distress, and wrongful eviction. The suit also asserted Vista Grande initiated the ER trips in retaliation for the family’s disagreements about Tingley’s care. Vista Grande and its director have denied the allegations. Their attorneys and the director did not respond to requests for comment.

In a legal filing, Vista Grande called the drugs recommended to the Tingleys “routine medication” and said it sent their mother to the hospital “because of her family’s refusal to allow Ms. Tingley to be treated on site.”

A Michigan Circuit Court judge has dismissed the negligence claim on legal grounds. A trial is scheduled for early next year on the remainder of the lawsuit if mediation fails.

Earlier this year, Vista Grande, which was a nonprofit, became a wholly owned subsidiary of Otterbein SeniorLife, which renamed it Otterbein Jackson SeniorLife Community. Otterbein is not named in the lawsuit, and representatives did not respond to requests for comment.

Dangers of Aggression

Diseases that cause dementia damage the parts of the brain that regulate impulse control and perception. Impaired people can become aggressive because of fear 鈥� especially when they no longer recognize their caregivers 鈥� or because they have no other way to communicate that they are in pain, are hungry, or have some other need.

Altercations between agitated people with dementia and other residents or workers charged with caring for them are in long-term care facilities and private homes. 吃瓜不打烊 previously found that federal inspectors have cited nursing homes more often for resident-to-resident abuse than for any other type of abuse, neglect, or exploitation.

Those dangers are particularly true in the more than that specialize in dementia care, usually in locked buildings or units populated by people with cognitive damage. These memory care facilities promise specially trained staff and meaningful activities for residents and usually charge more than standard assisted living.

The long-term care industry’s reliance on tranquilizing medications has been a concern of Congress for half a century. A stated that “an ugly pattern of prescription drug misuse, with harsh consequences to patients, exists in many nursing homes of the United States.”

A National Campaign

In 2012, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services launched its to target overprescribing. It has shown some success with reducing the use of antipsychotics, which the FDA has approved primarily for people with schizophrenia. Excluding those patients, antipsychotics were given to nursing home residents in 2025. An inspector general identified “alarming instances of inappropriate use of antipsychotic drugs.”

Nationally, nearly in assisted living facilities have Alzheimer’s or other diseases and conditions that cause dementia. Unlike nursing homes, assisted living facilities don’t provide skilled medical care around the clock, but they help people with fundamental activities like bathing and eating. States regulate them, not the federal government.

A study published in 2023 in JAMDA, the journal of the society representing post-acute and long-term care medicine, found that, on average, assisted living residents with dementia for 13% of the time they lived there. Other researchers through 2017 concluded the federal campaign “did not appear to affect antipsychotic prescribing” in these residents.

Lauren Gerlach, a geriatric psychiatrist and an associate professor at the University of Michigan Medical School, said there is evidence that aggressive behaviors are better addressed by non-medication interventions, like looking for underlying medical issues or heading off situations that typically upset the person. But, she said, “for some patients, these behaviors are so severe that medications will be required.”

A Steady Decline

The details of Marjorie Tingley’s time at Vista Grande 鈥� as alleged in documents filed in the lawsuit; records provided by the Tingleys and their lawyer, Ron Marienfeld; and interviews and emails with the family 鈥� provide an unusually intimate look into what can happen when families and caregivers clash over brain-altering drugs.

A Detroit native, Tingley was a volunteer reading teacher in the Jackson, Michigan, public school system and worked in the general office. Later, she was a certified financial planner. Her sons said she was successful but made less money than she might have, because she didn’t direct investments to get the highest commissions. Instead, she did what she thought was best for clients.

“She was just so honest,” David Tingley said.

She was an active member of the Catholic Church. Her husband, Eugene, died in 2010.

A senior woman is lying on her back in bed and looking up at the camera.
Vista Grande Villa gave Marjorie Tingley an eviction notice after her sons resisted requests to sedate their mother with medications, medical records show. She died less than two weeks after moving to a new facility. (David Tingley)

Around 2018, her sons noticed she was becoming forgetful, not taking her regular medications or recognizing aides they had hired. David and his brother Mark, who shared power of attorney, said in an interview that their mother’s memory deteriorated further after a head injury in a 2019 car collision.

They hired caregivers to help at her home in Jackson, but by 2021, they decided she needed to be in a facility, choosing the assisted living unit at the nonprofit Vista Grande.

In 2023, Vista Grande told them that their mother’s dementia had progressed and that she needed to go into the memory care unit or leave. Vista Grande’s memory care marketing materials said its “dedicated team creates an individual program of support for each resident” and “provides for the precise services you need.”

David said they reluctantly agreed to the move but thought the quality of care was better in general assisted living, even though memory care cost more. Vista Grande charged Tingley $9,150 a month for memory care, her lease shows.

鈥楾hese Pills Have Side Effects’

Vista Grande first contacted the Tingleys in early December 2024 about behavioral incidents. According to facility records, Marjorie Tingley pushed an aide trying to help her use the bathroom and the aide almost fell. She yelled and kicked at staff trying to put on her shoes and socks. She wandered into another resident’s room and took a walker.

The facility requested permission to medicate Tingley, but her sons said they first wanted her checked for a urinary tract infection, which they said had caused her agitation in the past. “These pills have side effects,” Mark said. “I thought, 鈥楶ersonally, I don’t want her to have that.’”

Vista Grande collected the sample but didn’t ensure it was tested by a lab for more than a week, by which time the test had to be redone, according to facility and medical records.

In mid-December, Vista Grande sent Tingley to Henry Ford Jackson Hospital for a mental health evaluation, at which psychiatrists could decide whether she required involuntary hospitalization. Doctors did not find that necessary, but they confirmed a urinary tract infection and she was given antibiotics. Vista Grande declared she could not return unless the family agreed to sedating medication, according to hospital records.

In a court filing, Vista Grande said Tingley had become a “danger to herself and others.” Mark recalled feeling at the time that: “It’s like they’re holding her ransom unless I say she can have that pill.”

Medication Begins

The specific medications were prescribed either by hospital doctors or a nurse practitioner working for a medical group that serviced residents of Vista Grande and other long-term care facilities, medical records show. David said Vista Grande had encouraged the family to replace their mother’s longtime physician with that medical group. The lawsuit did not name the nurse, the medical group, or the hospital as defendants. Henry Ford Health declined to comment.

The brothers allowed Vista Grande to give their mother the drug Ativan, the brand name , as needed. Ativan is not an antipsychotic but a benzodiazepine that the FDA for people with anxiety. The label says it can , unsteadiness, and weakness and is supposed to be used “with caution” in patients with breathing problems 鈥� like Tingley, who had sleep apnea. It can cause “paradoxical” reactions such as agitation and rage.

After a week, Vista Grande workers gave “mixed reports” about whether the Ativan was calming Tingley, according to her medical records. Employees said she still would yell and was “very agitated.”

The family said they authorized Vista Grande to replace Ativan with a low dose of Zyprexa, the brand name for the , which the FDA has approved to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. The FDA requires Zyprexa to carry a stating that it is not approved for the treatment of patients with dementia-related psychosis and places them at greater risk of death.

Nonetheless, Zyprexa has a long history of being prescribed that way. Eli Lilly, the drug’s manufacturer, pleaded guilty in 2009 to allegations that it improperly promoted the use of Zyprexa for dementia with long-term care providers and primary care physicians. The company a criminal fine and civil settlement totaling $1.4 billion.

The black box warning on Zyprexa alarmed the sons, and their online research made them worried that Zyprexa could damage their mother’s heart, since she had . While the family approved the prescription, they authorized only 2.5 milligrams of Zyprexa a day, half the starter dose recommended by Eli Lilly.

鈥楽he Could Barely Function’

On both New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day, Vista Grande sent Tingley to the emergency room. On Jan. 2, Vista Grande gave the family the 30-day eviction notice. “We have determined we are unable to meet the level of care and expectations required for your mother’s well-being,” it said in the letter.

While the family started looking for another facility, Vista Grande sent Tingley to the ER four more times.

Vista Grande Villa gave Marjorie Tingley an eviction notice after her sons resisted requests to sedate their mother with medications, medical records show. Tingley’s family said she was being excessively sedated. “She could barely function,” her son David says. (David Tingley)

A psychiatrist consulting with the hospital endorsed doubling the Zyprexa to the starter dose recommended by Eli Lilly, and the Tingleys consented, according to medical records.

For five days, there were no incidents at Vista Grande, according to her medical records. But the family alleged in court filings that Tingley was being excessively sedated. They instructed that the Zyprexa be cut back to its initial level, according to her medical records.

“She could barely function,” David said in the interview.

The sons said they were especially disturbed to learn she was being given both Ativan and Zyprexa after they had approved Zyprexa as a replacement drug.

Reports from emergency room crews and the hospital made the sons doubt their mother was as aggressive as Vista Grande described, they said. Those records show that throughout the ER trips, Henry Ford employees and ambulance workers generally found Tingley cooperative and polite.

A nurse said Tingley allowed her to braid her hair and blew her kisses when she left. “Just the sweetest patient and very loving,” another ER worker wrote in the medical records. A physician noted the discrepancy from what Vista Grande was reporting, writing in her record: “Her behavior on what I am witnessing is completely contrary to what they are indicating.”

In a legal filing, Vista Grande attributed Tingley’s calm to medication and the “familial love and attention” her sons gave her at the emergency room.

“The next time Ms. Tingley decompensated, the cycle predictably resumed,” Vista Grande said in the filing.

Vista Grande reported that aggressive behaviors resumed and continued sending Tingley to the hospital. On the last trip, Jennifer Wheeler, then-director of Vista Grande’s memory care unit, told ambulance workers that Marjorie would not be accepted back, according to EMS notes. “She is a danger to other residents and a danger to my staff,” Wheeler said.

Tingley stayed in the hospital until she was moved to another memory care facility in Jackson. on Jan. 26, 2025, less than two weeks later.

Her sons asserted in their lawsuit that the frequent trips back and forth to the hospital hastened their mother’s demise.

“They weren’t really caring about my mom,” Mark said. “If they were, they would know that all this back-and-forth to the hospital was no good for her.”

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